View Poll Results: Which wine do you prefer?

Voters
69. You may not vote on this poll
  • French

    19 27.54%
  • Italian

    13 18.84%
  • Spanish

    8 11.59%
  • Portuguese

    8 11.59%
  • Australian

    3 4.35%
  • South American (includes Chilean wine)

    4 5.80%
  • House Blend (from your own country if not already listed)

    7 10.14%
  • I don't drink wine

    7 10.14%
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Thread: Which country makes the best wine?

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas View Post
    We can not afford it because it is a collectors item. You are paying for a collectors item, not for what the wine is actually worth or what it costed to be produced.

    Most of what you are paying for is marketing and the brand value, that is noticeable in wines that have a price difference of $20, let alone wines that cost thousands of euros. You have to be very naive not to believe that.

    An example with two American wines:



    All I want is a nice wine to go with a lovely meal I do not want to memorize the lineage of every Chateau in Bordeaux dating back to 1389. Perhaps we also have inferiority complexes in relation to French "sissyness"\pretentiousness but regarding wines I can assure you that there is no complex. Most Portuguese stand by their wine. Nobody consumes imported wine in here, not matter if cheap or expensive because we know we are not missing out, our grapes rival with those of the fancy wine producers.
    lol. You know nothing about wine industry.

    Your analys is based on American wine, the United States is the country where marketing is king. Some US-produced sparkling wines even use the term Champagne on their labels, a blasphemy in France!

    In Europe wines are subject to very strict restrictions on yield and vine variety. In Bordeaux, The Official Classification of 1855 was requested by Emperor Napoleon III for Bordeaux wines. Brokers from the wine industry ranked the wines according to a château's reputation and trading prices, and guess what? This classification is still valid today, with almost no exception throughout history.
    All factors play a decisive role in a wine's reputation: the oak barrel (yes, it makes a huge difference whether it's American or French oak), the cork, the noble rot, just everything. Why do you think the world's best sommeliers are able to identify any kind of wine by grape variety, estate, year of release...all this with eyes closed? Do you really think the reputation depends only on a label on the bottle?
    Wow, this would make of sommelier the easiest of all well-paid jobs on Earth. Where do I sign? You are the naive one for that purpose.

    And it's the same in Portugal, Porto is undoubtedly the best fortified wine in the world, not because Portuguese claim it, but because any wine expert will confirm it to you.
    How would you react if I tell you that the best Portos are overrated and that they are equal and even inferior to any ordinary Spanish sherry?

    Last but not least, your map doesn't make any sense. Portuguese have the highest wine consum in Europe. So and what? How could this mean they produce the best wines? In your map, Romanians consum more wine than Spaniards (17 liters per capita according to the map), but it's because Spaniards are staunch cerveza-drinkers, not because they make poor-quality wines.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melki View Post
    lol. You know nothing about wine industry.
    Do you know how to make wine or have you ever done it? Most Portuguese members in here probably have, from harvest to the final product on the table. Could not care less about your pretentious French chicness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melki View Post
    Your analys is based on American wine, the United States is the country where marketing is king. Some US-produced sparkling wines even use the term Champagne on their labels, a blasphemy in France!
    The expert on the wine industry that claims that only the U.S. cares about marketing and brand value...all the regulations you have in France are not meant to protect its controlled denomination and regional\brand value, at all!...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melki View Post
    In Europe wines are subject to very strict restrictions on yield and vine variety. In Bordeaux, The Official Classification of 1855 was requested by Emperor Napoleon III for Bordeaux wines. Brokers from the wine industry ranked the wines according to a château's reputation and trading prices, and guess what? This classification is still valid today, with almost no exception throughout history.
    All factors play a decisive role in a wine's reputation: the oak barrel (yes, it makes a huge difference whether it's American or French oak), the cork, the noble rot, just everything. Why do you think the world's best sommeliers are able to identify any kind of wine by grape variety, estate, year of release...all this with eyes closed? Do you really think the reputation depends only on a label on the bottle?
    Wow, this would make of sommelier the easiest of all well-paid jobs on Earth. Where do I sign? You are the naive one for that purpose.
    Only enthusiasts with years of practice can identify something like that blindfolded.

    "Over 500 people tasted wine flights composed from 523 different wines ranging in price from $1.65 to $150. They then answered the question “Overall, how do you find the wine?”

    The bottom line is that in blind tastings of regular people, there is no correlation between the wines they like and the price of the wine. In fact, the paper found a slightly negative correlation, suggesting that regular people actually prefer cheaper wines.

    Among wine experts (people with formal wine training), the test found a slight positive correlation between the price of wine and the scores assigned by the reviewers. Experts, it seems, really do prefer more expensive wine according to the experiment. About 12% of the participants were labeled “expert,” because they had some wine training, such as a sommelier course."

    Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...nd-taste-tests

    The background story of some item like a bottle of wine influences our expectations and changes our interpretation. If I pour some 50€ wine into a 1000€ bottle and give it to you most likely you will say that it was the best wine you have ever had...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melki View Post
    And it's the same in Portugal, Porto is undoubtedly the best fortified wine in the world, not because Portuguese claim it, but because any wine expert will confirm it to you.
    How would you react if I tell you that the best Portos are overrated and that they are equal and even inferior to any ordinary Spanish sherry?
    A lot of expensive Porto wine is overpriced and overrated. If not preserved correctly you might get an expensive Porto bottle with 50 years old that will have wine lees at the bottom, which will be a horrible experience. You are paying for how many years that they had the wine stocked without profiting anything from it plus the collectible\enthusiast value, not really how much the actual product is worth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melki View Post
    Last but not least, your map doesn't make any sense. Portuguese have the highest wine consum in Europe. So and what? How could this mean they produce the best wines? In your map, Romanians consum more wine than Spaniards (17 liters per capita according to the map), but it's because Spaniards are staunch cerveza-drinkers, not because they make poor-quality wines.
    It means they should know something about wine. You can place France on your top 10 list as number one but I can not say that for me it is Portugal without having you go hysterical and projecting that every "Southerner" has inferiority complexes. This is the opposite of feeling inferior, this is me acknowledging the quality of what we produce in here and standing by it. I could name a lot of stuff that we do not do well but wine certainly is not one of them.
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


  3. #163
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    Massive Côte du Rhône fine-wine fraud uncovered by French police


    Some 66.5 million bottles of wine, the equivalent of 13 Olympic sized swimming pools full of plonk, was falsely sold as high quality Côtes-du-Rhône wine, French officials have revealed.
    Almost half a million hectolitres of wine was sold off under the Côtes du Rhône AOC label - which denotes both the geographical origin of the wine and a certification of quality.


    Some of the wine, 10,000 litres in fact, was even falsely sold under the renowned Chateauneuf-du-Pape AOP label, the commercial value off which was €7000,000.

    The massive fraud was revealed in a report this week by France's consumer fraud body the Direction Générale de la Concurrence, de la Consommation et de la Répression des Fraudes (DGCDRF).

    Their inquiry into the 2017 scam unearthed a "massive misuse of the Côtes-du-Rhône label" including by a major wine producer, which has not been named.

    But DGCCRF chief executive Virginie Beaumeunier told the press that the "CEO of the company" was "indicted for deception and fraud".

    Wine fraud in France has become an issue for authorities and customers alike in recent years with the problem being highlighted by the jailing in 2016 of a French wine baron.

    Francois-Marie Marret was given a two-year sentence for fraud for blending poor quality wine with high-end Saint-Emilions, Lalande-de-Pomerols and Listrac-Medocs to sell to major supermarkets under prestigious labels.

    The 800,000-litre (211,000-gallon) "moon wine" fraud, so called because the cheap wine was spirited to his operation by night, was uncovered thanks to the diligent work of French customs inspectors.

    Source: https://www.thelocal.fr/20180316/mas...-french-police

    Probably the type of overpriced wine Melki would buy and swear by that it is the best wine ever.
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  4. #164
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    TA has lots of wine experts per capita. Personally I don't care much about wines. ( I know it's sold as something 'high brow' and 'intellectual' but I don't see it as such)
    All of them are the same to me.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas View Post
    Do you know how to make wine or have you ever done it? Most Portuguese members in here probably have, from harvest to the final product on the table. Could not care less about your pretentious French chicness.



    The expert on the wine industry that claims that only the U.S. cares about marketing and brand value...all the regulations you have in France are not meant to protect its controlled denomination and regional\brand value, at all!...



    Only enthusiasts with years of practice can identify something like that blindfolded.

    "Over 500 people tasted wine flights composed from 523 different wines ranging in price from $1.65 to $150. They then answered the question “Overall, how do you find the wine?”

    The bottom line is that in blind tastings of regular people, there is no correlation between the wines they like and the price of the wine. In fact, the paper found a slightly negative correlation, suggesting that regular people actually prefer cheaper wines.

    Among wine experts (people with formal wine training), the test found a slight positive correlation between the price of wine and the scores assigned by the reviewers. Experts, it seems, really do prefer more expensive wine according to the experiment. About 12% of the participants were labeled “expert,” because they had some wine training, such as a sommelier course."

    Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...nd-taste-tests

    The background story of some item like a bottle of wine influences our expectations and changes our interpretation. If I pour some 50€ wine into a 1000€ bottle and give it to you most likely you will say that it was the best wine you have ever had...



    A lot of expensive Porto wine is overpriced and overrated. If not preserved correctly you might get an expensive Porto bottle with 50 years old that will have wine lees at the bottom, which will be a horrible experience. You are paying for how many years that they had the wine stocked without profiting anything from it plus the collectible\enthusiast value, not really how much the actual product is worth.



    It means they should know something about wine. You can place France on your top 10 list as number one but I can not say that for me it is Portugal without having you go hysterical and projecting that every "Southerner" has inferiority complexes. This is the opposite of feeling inferior, this is me acknowledging the quality of what we produce in here and standing by it. I could name a lot of stuff that we do not do well but wine certainly is not one of them.
    1/ The title of the thread is "which country makes the best wine". According to experts and specialists, overall it's France (with Italy and California as serious contenders). Period. However the title of the poll is "which wine do you prefer?" which is more subjective. I don't mind you prefer Portuguese wine. Many Hungarians and Romanian members have expressed their preference for their national wines (which are good, but it's also the only wines they've ever tasted in their life).
    The problem is that you stated that the French wines are overpriced and overrated, and that they don't deserve their high reputation, their over-the-top prices not being justified. This is totally wrong, and you may understand that I must firmly contradict you.

    2/ As for myself, I'm not a wine expert. And I know I would not be able to tell the difference between a Champagne and a good Spanish Cava or Crémant de Luxembourg. My taste buds are not trained enough. But wine experts can. It's not only an intellectual thing: wines may taste all the same to Universe or Finnish Swede but not to a professional oenologist.
    I would have been lured by the wine fraud, tasting a plonk a taking for granted it's a noble wine. But once again, I'm not a specialist, I leave that job to others. I'm only a wine enthusiast who purchase the bottles I can afford. And as long as I do it with pleasure, it's no shame. Period.

    3/ That's the reason why your blind tasting involving regular persons doesn't make any sense. Only trained experts with years of practice can tell them apart from one another with eyes closed, as pointed out by yourself. Not all sommeliers are equal. Like in sports, there are champions and losers. It's not because you participated in a course and had some basic training that you will become an expert working in a five stars hotel.

    4/ I don't deny that marketing is relevant in wine industry, but in Europe, and France in particular, tradition matters more. You can't so easily cheat with the origins and the vinification process to boost up your sales the same way some American producers do. French authorities don't kid with wine, our prestige and our credibility are at stake. Frauds and traffic involving wine are a national shame and sooner or later they are discovered.

    5/ Sadly, a lot of Porto brands are overrated and overpriced but not the best ones. It's important to be well-guided and know all the information before any purchase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Universe View Post
    TA has lots of wine experts per capita. Personally I don't care much about wines. ( I know it's sold as something 'high brow' and 'intellectual' but I don't see it as such)
    All of them are the same to me.
    says the man with a very "high-brow French" avatar. Isn't it ironic?

  6. #166
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    Just one curiosity (part of mental differences between Europeans ...)

    Many alcohol drinks have been determined/specified (= protected) very tightly ... what can be called (marketing wise): Cognacs, Champagnes, Whiskeys etc. ... where those are produced, how those are produced not to talking about pure raw materials. Except one. Vodka.

    Under name of Vodka one can (is allowed) sell almost anything if just alcohol % is high enough. If Vodka would had been product of some others than Northern Europeans ... that would hardly be so.
    Last edited by Finnish Swede; 09-25-2020 at 10:30 AM.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas View Post
    I have been to Eger and I was pleasantly surprised with the Hungarian wine culture. Good stuff.
    Good to hear! There are some hidden treasures there for sure due to the microclimate.

    Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk

  8. #168
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    I dont like Wine its discusting! only German Beer

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truen View Post
    I dont like Wine its discusting! only German Beer
    Bruh our ancestors have literally been drinking wine at least once a week for the last few thousand years.
    Leave the Mediterranean, pleb.
    חזרנו אל בורות המים לשוק ולכיכר"
    "שופר קורא בהר הבית בעיר העתיקה


  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by ModernMaskil View Post
    Bruh our ancestors have literally been drinking wine at least once a week for the last few thousand years.
    Leave the Mediterranean, pleb.
    and nowdays most of us drink Tirush in the Kiddosh.

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