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This will be a VERY long post.
So, to those that don't like them, I'm going to apologize in advance.
[!!!]The Russo-Chechen Conflict is complicated, and the bloody history of Chechens as a whole even more so.[!!!]
Reading a few wiki pages or news-articles is not enough. That doesn't even cover 1/5 of what actually happened, and STILL is happening to this day.
I'm disgusted and disappointed in some of the people on this thread.
1.
Combined, 2M-3M of innocent people died, which includes Russians as well, they suffered various horrible things done to them, were forcibly displaced/resettled/deported etc. At least have some decency to admit that happened. They didn't die/suffer for nothing. The "how's" doesn't matter at this point. It happened, and is a dark past of our human history.
2.
Some of you are clearly showing that you are biased, and will believe any negative piece of news or information against the Chechens, no matter how ridiculous it sounds, even if there is no evidence for the claims.
This, in result, makes me, and I'm sure many others, not want to take any of you(and like-minded) serious. If you want to be taken serious, do NOT portray, in conflicts like this, one nation as good and the other one as bad.(Personally speaking, if you do that, any credibility you have will just fly out of the window.)
It doesn't work like that. BOTH sides have committed horrible acts, Russia considerably more and worse. (I don't need to sum them up, you can easily google them. Or read a few books from UNBIASED authors/historians) And no, this is NOT me being biased, I'm simply stating facts.
3.
Why is it that the Russian military/government can commit genocide(yes, genocide!) and other atrocities against the Chechen nation in broad-daylight not once, but several times, without any punishment by world powers, while 1 Chechen's wrongdoings are scrutinized to a fault? Why are people now staying mute about Russia's actions while the entirety of the Chechen nation is blamed and condemned for something a couple of rebels/terrorists did?
4.
For those who still don't (or don't WANT) to get it, like @Illancha said;
THE INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT NEVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION!
It is about the FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE that we rightfully deserve! We have literally NO ties to Russians. Not culturally, traditionally, linguistically, genetically, Origin-wise etc. Nothing.
Our Ancestors have lived in the Caucasus for millenniums. Are said to have, by many scholars, not all, migrated from the Fertile Crescent to the North Caucasus around 10,000-12,000 years ago.(note: their "actual" origin is still seen as a mystery by many). While the Russians are said to have been in their present-day land for over 1 millennium, or 2 millenniums at the most. The Chechens/Nakh/Vainakh were a distinct people way before Russia.
So why is everyone so adamant on having us become a part of Russia?
[!]All we want is to be left alone.[!]
But apparently, some power-hungry Empires thought that the Caucasus was some kind of playground and decided to have some "fun" there and ended up ruining it with their greed.
If your excuses and the reason as to why you think Chechnya should be a part of Russia and not an Independence Nation, which I have seen MANY make, is about us being "uncivilized/barbaric/savages/blood-thirsty criminals" and whatever else nonsense y'all come up with, then you can keep it. Your excuses are invalid.
Just because we had tribes/clans did not mean we were "uncivilized" criminals with no morals, going around hunting animals and living in caves etc. You couldn't be any more wrong. Russian leaders spread this nonsense, not only to the general Russian public, but also to the rest of the world. Many Russian writers/historians talked down on us and generally portrayed us as savages in their stories etc.
The Chechens(including the Ingush) are an egalitarian society. We value equality and freedom above all.
We, also, have had a complex democratic system/government(the Mexk-Khel system) for a very long time. I have done some little research myself, but I have yet to find out in which year that system exactly originated. I've seen some scholars say that it started around or after the 2 Mongol Invasions in the 13th and 14th centuries, while I've seen some say that it goes way back to centuries BC. (not sure how plausible that claim is)
"It is notable especially that the Chechen and Ingush systems, as well as the system later adopted from them by some Eastern Circassian tribes, is resemblant especially of the Western democratic republic. It has a central government with a legislative body (the Mexk-Khel), a body resemblant of an executive branch (the Council of Tukhum) as well as a judicial branch (the other councils). The adat and other bodies have served as the constitution. The members to all three of the main national councils of the nation were, in fact, elected, making the inherent indigenous democracy of the Nakh peoples even more striking."
Council of #Nakh elders, at the sacred cauldron Nashkh - Ey
Vainakh social organization scheme.
(click the links to see the pictures)
After freedom and equality, hospitality is the 3rd most important Ethos/moral code for us.
If people from other nations/ethnicities came to our land, if they showed respect and no aggression, we would always gladly accept them, and let them even start up their own clans. People fleeing from their countries for whatever reason were also accepted with open arms.
Another point I want to add to this certain topic, is how so many think we should be grateful to Russia for the current state of the country, with all the rebuilding.
??????????
We should be grateful for what exactly? THEY completely DESTROYED our country. In the 90's and early 2000's, Grozny was known as the "Most Destroyed City in the World."
They ruined it, the rebuilding should be funded and done by them. It's Russia's responsibility!!
Though I hate him, I'm also grateful to Kadyrov for having good relations with Putin, which is the only reason as to why Chechnya looks today the way it does.
5.
To get to my next point, I first want to, again, address something @Illancha mentioned a few times;
How no one tried to or didn't bother to help us. That is actually not true at all, though I can also understand why you would say/think that.
• Bush told the Russian military to defect from Chechnya in the 90's. (I can't find back the link where I read this)
• The US, same with many others in the world, were largely on our side, 'cuz we as a nation liked and supported their democratic system and the whole "land of the free" thing they had going, which is very similar to OUR ancient and original traditions and beliefs.
• I don't remember where, or if it is even true, but I read on some news site/or a book(?) that many(individuals, no organisation) Poles even came to help us in the 1st war.
• Many individuals and/or freedom fighters(?) from other Muslim nations also came to fight against the Russians.
• I also clearly remember reading, on 3 different sites, that the Ottoman Empire and Germany recognized our Independence from Russia.(Though I'm not exactly sure anymore if this was about the Independence Movement from the early or the late 20th century.)
Now all of that aside; what I wanted to talk about is, how all of that brought the Al-Qaeda, with all their wahhabisme and extremist beliefs, to Chechnya. They in turn had a big impact on some rebels, whom as a last resort, turned to them for help. Because besides them, no other actual, organisation was helping us. Only individuals were.
And then the tragedy of 9/11 and some other terrorist attacks happened. Russia happily took complete advantage of that and spread lies and propaganda to the US, mainly, and the rest if the world, about how we were an Islamic terror state and were aiding/helping Al-Qaeda.
That's when the US and the rest of the world turned their backs on us. Which to this day, messed with our minds. We truly believed that the US out of all would stay on our side. But, as usual for the Chechen nation, we just got betrayed again.
That's why we now have trust-issues. Not just towards foreigners, but even towards our own Chechen people.(The puppet-Kadyrov regime are only making things worse)
6.
Islam in Chechnya.
Majority are really devoted today, and for many, Islam would come 1st.
But things where completely different during the 90's wars and the independence movements before that.
Though they were Muslim, the Nation and native homeland were the most important for the Chechen nation as a whole.
Something that @Illancha has mentioned a couple of times on this thread, and that I completely agree with is: THE TERRORISTS AND ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS ARE THE RESULT OF THE CENTURIES OF RUSSIAN AGGRESSION AND COLONIZATION!!
And now I want to ask the question that all of us Chechens wonder:
Why does no one care about us?
I know it has little to nothing to do with the actions of some terrorists and with us being a Muslim nation, cuz other Muslim Nation from the Middle East where ISIL and Al-Qaeda originated(and whom have done worse) are getting the support and sympathy of the world.(as they rightly should, 'cuz none of it is the fault of the nations as a whole).
Many horrible things happened to the Chechens and their direct-ancestors in the past almost 3 millenia's. Too much bloodshed. It seems to know war better than it has known times of peace.
They can't catch a break. Invasion after invasion by different Empires and peoples, deportation after deportation, genocide, near-extinction, mass-murder/rapes/tortures towards men, women AND children, massacres, kidnappings etc.
Kidnappings, murder and torture against innocent civilians by the Kremlin and Kadyrovists are on-going to this day.
And this all, is only some of the things that happened to this tiny nation. There's so, so much more.
If you are interested in/or just want to know more about the Chechens, their history, culture, traditions, or maybe want to know some more about 90's war etc, I'd recommend;
- "The Chechens: A Handbook" by Amjad Jaimoukha
- "Chechnya: The Case for Independence" by Tony Wood
- "Allah's Mountains: The Battle for Chechnya" by Sebastian Smith
As an ending note
I'm wishing that Russia will have better leaders, one that cares for his people, but also isn't interested in expanding their territory.
And as such, I'm also of course hoping for Kadyrov and his men to go. Our nations' relations could definitely change for the better.
Despite the hate between us, I'm still hoping that we could form genuinely positive relations and trust between us, not the fake, puppet stuff like Putin&Kadyrov.
Admitting to one's wrongdoings(both sides) and wanting to change things, so as to prevent similar events from happening again, is the first step to a brighter future for both of our nations.
If you read all of this, Thank you for taking you time.
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Originally Posted by lonewolf.88
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