Why y-dna R1a1a and I2 are much higher in Greece than southern Italy/Sicily?

[Partizan]

So, why dodecanese an cycladic islanders look pretty much the same of Sicilians and Calabreses, but this don't happen with mainland greeks? Not so many mainland greeks look siculo-calabrese...

It is nice you brought some evidence about genetic difference between Islanders and Mainland Greeks.

Another source, the so-called Chronicle of Monembasia, states that in the year 587-8 the Turkic Avars (with whom the Slavs were usually allied)

"captured all of Thessaly and all of Greece, Old Epirus, Attica and Euboea. Indeed, they attacked the Peloponnese and took it by war; and after expelling and destroying the native Hellenic peoples, they dwelt there. Those who were able to escape their murderous hands were scattered here and there. Thus, the citizens of Patras moved to the district of Reggio in Calabria, the Argives to the island called Orobe, the Corinthians to the island of Aegina.... Only the eastern part of the Peloponnese, from Corinth to Cape Maleas, was untouched by the Slavonians because of the rough and inaccessible nature of the country."

There is some doubt concerning the exact date of these events, but it is undeniable that at the end of the sixth century and the beginning of the seventh, when the Danubian frontier completely collapsed, practicallv the entire Balkan peninsula passed out of imperial control. Only a few coastal outposts, such as Mesembria on the Black Sea, Thessalonica, Athens and Corinth, held out. Elsewhere the old population sought refuge on off-shore islands, as it did on Monembasia, or emigrated to Italy. The domain of barbarism extended as far as the outer defences of Constantinople - the so-called Anastasian Long Walls which described a wide arc from the Black Sea to Selymbria (Siliv on the Sea of Marmora - but even these had soon to be abandoned.

The last important Slavonic settlement was that of the Serbs and Croats who in the reign of Heraclius occupied the lands where they still dwell. Then, in 680, came the Turkic Bulgars and conquered the country that bears their name, where they were eventually assimilated by the sitting Slavonic population. The barbarization of the Balkans began to be reversed only towards the ed of the eighth century, but by that time its effects had become permanent.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/mango.asp

Perhaps the true Hellenes migrated to islands during Avar raids and Slavic subjects of Avars might have been settled to mainland Greece.

[Linet]

Yes...
Even me and my brother dont look alike...lets sa i take 10 people and my brother other 10 , all from Sparta, and we create 2 different vilages...and we marry and marry between us ...guess what. In 400 years you ll be able to say who is from where ...because the intermarriage and close circle has made some characteristics dominant.
So which of us will be less Spartan?

[Linet]

Partizan ...I am from Monembasia...watch out what you say :icon_wink:

[rashka]

Here is something interesting. Slavs were mentioned enough that war had to be engaged with them in the year 805. Obviously it seemed to be a problem 1200 years ago.


According to the Chronicle of Monemvasia in 805 the Byzantine governor of Corinth went to war with the Slavs, obliterated them, and allowed the original inhabitants to claim their own; the city of Patras was recovered and the region re-settled with Greeks. By the end of the 9th century most of Greece was culturally and administratively Greek again, with the exception of a few small Slavic tribes in the mountains such as the Melingoi and Ezeritai. Although they were to remain relatively autonomous until Ottoman times, such tribes were the exception rather than the rule.

Apart from military expeditions against Slavs, the re-Hellenization process begun under Nicephorus I involved (often forcible) transfer of peoples. Many Slavs were moved to other parts of the empire, such as Anatolia and made to serve in the military. In return, many Greeks from Sicily and Asia Minor were brought to the interior of Greece, to increase the number of defenders at the Emperor's disposal and dilute the concentration of Slavs.

[Partizan]

Partizan ...I am from Monembasia...watch out what you say :icon_wink:

Take a look at that, sweety:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicle_of_Monemvasia

It says nothing bad about your city, perhaps Greeks from Central and North Greece would feel offended though

[kabeiros]

Because that's what the ancient Greeks looked like, of course. There is a reason Greeks from Greece always ask me if I am Rhodian, Cretan, or from the Dodecanese.

Cretans and Greeks from the Cyclades are probably among the purest Greeks, although they have some Italian influence

Pontios even said I can pass as Pontian, and they are pretty "pure" Ancient Greek too.

Didn't you say that Anatolian Greeks have mixed with the natives of Anatolia and they can't be considered pure Greeks? But now that Pontios told you that you can pass as a Pontian (I told you the exact same thing a couple of months ago, if you remember) you think that we are pure ancient Greeks?

Mainland Greeks look much much closer to Bulgarians, Albanians, Macedonians and even Serbs.

No one denies the fact that Slavs and Albanians have settled in Greece, but you people make it sound like Greeks were vanished after they came in, which is totally absurd. And keep in mind that mainland Greeks look like them not only because Alboz and Slavs settled here but also because they are mixed with Greeks too.

[Partizan]

Here is something interesting. Slavs were mentioned enough that war had to be engaged with them in the year 805. Obviously it seemed to be a problem 1200 years ago.


According to the Chronicle of Monemvasia in 805 the Byzantine governor of Corinth went to war with the Slavs, obliterated them, and allowed the original inhabitants to claim their own; the city of Patras was recovered and the region re-settled with Greeks. By the end of the 9th century most of Greece was culturally and administratively Greek again, with the exception of a few small Slavic tribes in the mountains such as the Melingoi and Ezeritai. Although they were to remain relatively autonomous until Ottoman times, such tribes were the exception rather than the rule.

Apart from military expeditions against Slavs, the re-Hellenization process begun under Nicephorus I involved (often forcible) transfer of peoples. Many Slavs were moved to other parts of the empire, such as Anatolia and made to serve in the military. In return, many Greeks from Sicily and Asia Minor were brought to the interior of Greece, to increase the number of defenders at the Emperor's disposal and dilute the concentration of Slavs.

I can't understand, how can they de-Slavize Greece if they settled too much? A large amount of Slavs might have been Hellenized instead?

[Midori]

Both. I don't know what you mean by ''Balkan'' ancestry though, since Greeks are Balkan people themselves.

[Sikeliot]

Both. I don't know what you mean by ''Balkan'' ancestry though, since Greeks are Balkan people themselves.

When I say Balkan ancestry, I mean they have ancestry that arrived later from other Balkan regions.

[Onur]

northern Greeks:

R1a -- 18.2
R1b -- 13.2
E1b -- 20.6
J2 : 14.9
I2 -- 21.6%

MUCH more I2, R1a, and much less J2 and E1b.

Sikeloit, you have to consider that the half of northern Greece are Anatolian immigrants. Around 90% of these immigrants has been settled into Aegean Macedonia by the Greek state, which makes about 900.000 people. Macedonia`s population was around 1,2 million and it reached around two million after the Anatolian immigrants.

Your question can only be answered by comparing northern Greece with the Macedonia and doing a DNA test specifically for the Anatolian immigrants of northern Greece.

Here is the Macedonia`s DNA results;

Macedonia
I2 -- 18
R1a -- 13.5
R1b -- 13.5
E1b -- 23
J2 -- 12

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...logroups.shtml

I don't know for sure but i think most of the Anatolian immigrants was J2, R1b and E1b. Their contribution to DNA of northern Greece must have reduced I2 input but increase J2, E1b and R1b. If we totally isolate Anatolian immigrants from there, i am sure the DNA results of northern Greece would totally correlate with neighboring Macedonia. Despite the Anatolian immigrant contribution, it still correlates with Macedonia today.