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Thread: humanphenotypes.net (former www.humanphenotypes.com)

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    Med

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurzat View Post
    why? not good coverage for Near East?
    It has no scientific basis.

    They combine work from many anthropologists that contradicts each other, and their is an obvious agenda. It is funny that most people reject Coons work, but use this site that is a bastardization of it.

    Also, no anthropologist terms phenotypes with "id" at the end of it. That site was created by an anthrotard on this forum.

    If you want the best classification for yourself and others, use the Origuess app. You'll get a lot of dud answers but the majority percentages of what you were guessed is more accurate imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdelnour View Post
    It has no scientific basis.

    They combine work from many anthropologists that contradicts each other, and their is an obvious agenda. It is funny that most people reject Coons work, but use this site that is a bastardization of it.

    Also, no anthropologist terms phenotypes with "id" at the end of it. That site was created by an anthrotard on this forum.
    I found my type there. it's Pre-Slavic didn't you find yours?

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    I see similarities between Pre-Slavic and Paleo-Atlantid



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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurzat View Post
    I found my type there. it's Pre-Slavic didn't you find yours?
    Lol. My type has been either Atlanto Med, CroMagnon-Med, Assyroid, Arabid, Asiatic Alpine, Kurdid(wtf?), Iranid, etc...

    I wouldn't really know my type until I get a caliper and do my measurements. People who do classifications here have obvious bias and agendas. Most of the time classifications is based on pre-knowledge where the person is from.

    Take Julia Michaels. People originally classified her as paleo Atlantid then later where it was released to be Jewish was later classified as Armenoid.

    It is all bullshit and we would be better off closing the Taxonomy thread from this forum.

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    I read through this thread, and I saved interesting parts from posts by Ratatoskr (who made humanphenotypes.com).

    He said that he used MATLAB to create a tool which was able to classify photos of faces based on their phenotype. I don't know if it ever got released.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    What do you use for morphing, Abrosoft?
    Yes, I do.

    I have seen you are great morpher, too
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Yeah, you can imagine that it would have been horrible to do hundreds of morphs without manual shifting. No clue what Abrosoft thought when they put automatic adjustments as a defalt.

    Btw: you can reduce the number of delination dots manually too, when adjusting the "Face Model."

    I did all kinds of stuff with Abrosoft. Sometimes alienated it. I even programmed a macro that lets Abrosoft morph automatically (there are more than 7000 combinations in the mixer, so it was necessary
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Regarding the question how much Nordid is in Scandinavia...I will find it out..I am just morphing pics of 25 RANDOMLY SELECTED sportsmen of different regions (smaller than country level) in Europe (their family name has to be local too)...I am curious about Norway, currently I am still at Denmark though

    Based on my collections there I will also be able to make the maps more precise..but still takes time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    I experimented with morphing profile pictures. It works!
    Here is a morph of 9 Dinarics. Taken from Coon, Günther and others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    In Arkhangelsk region - according to Ratatosk, live only East Baltids ... Look at the map - Russians from Arkhangelsk region are uber-Nordids( Head index = 78-82 . Hair color index = 2,48. Eye color index = 0,54 .... ) Triangles in central and soutern Russia - North Pontids/ East Nordids ..

    Thanks. That map seems to be really useful. However I can't read cyrillic, can you tell me what numbers belong to what type?

    I can then use it to update the information.

    I extended East Nordid a little, but not sure how much. I used this map here (for instance) where you see that Nordid gets quite rare east of Arkhangelsk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    New site will be exactly like that, inspiried by the works of anthropologists and they will be cited. It will synthesize their works.

    The old site was just an overview I made for myself based on internet inormation and I spontaneously decided to publish without expecting any reactions - it was not meant to be an encyclopedia for everybody. But as the interest was so high, I am currently filling it with information from the classical books. When I am finished, it will go online.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    It will be a synthesis of typological literature from 1870 to 1996. It's a more review that doesn't check the validity. But old anthropologists were usually not "wrong" in determining phenotypes. They were wrong in interpreting those types as "races" or groups with a common ancestry.

    So I will not speculate on this, but you only use the old literature to illustrate regional phenotypes. The old literature
    is even better than the new one here, because modern literature doesn't care so much about phenotypical differences between ethnicities and today it is geeting harder and harder to study the subject as higher mobility has blurred old regional variation.

    [...]

    The old site didn't have the Armenoid component in Italy,so your right. Italy has both, Dinaro Med and Armenoid types, especially the Litorid of Lundman.

    East Med was used by Lundman in many texts (but most of them are not online). He had it both as an aggregate term, but also an East Med proper type in West Asia. They are high skulled in difference to West Med. Biasutti had true Meds in West Asia, Eickstedt had it in Asia Minor. The Pontid type is the European subtype of East Med, and it appears in many publications, not only Lundman, but also those by Coon, Bunak,

    What do you see as important types of Iberia besides Mediterranid? I know it has Alpine, Nordic, Dinaric and Armenoid elements in smaller fractions and they will appear.
    The ones you mention: Atlanto Med and North Atlantid are both Med subtypes, the latter transitional to Nordic.

    [...]

    Well there are pros and contras about if human races exist. But you cannot determine race solely by looking at the phenotype, you need genetic information.
    So it would be wrong to call any phenotype "race" as old anthropologists did and the page doesn't deal with the subject "races", so the word will not really appear.

    I actually discovered quite a variety of North African types in the books and it will be cool to illustrate them. Ever heard of a Targid? The specialized desert type? No? Well, they used it, but nobody every posted this on the internet

    ----

    Btw: I developed a tool as well that classifies phenotypical clusters. It would improve upon the old literature and correct things especially in places that were not sufficiently studied. But for that I would need hundreds of
    mug shots with info on the ancestry of the subjects and I don't have time to do that alone.

    Although the tool is ready to use from a technical point of view For it to work properly I would have to index some ~500 more photographs.

    The site will still take time. It's a big task to combine all those books. But eventually it will be a reliable source.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Thanks. Atlantid will be dropped, it was only used synonymous for North Atlantid. The new North Atlantid is now made mainly by Brits and a few Northern French, no New Worlders anymore anywhere
    East Baltid will be separated into Lundman's Tavastid and Savolaxid. The Tavastid is similar to what people here call West Baltid, but not the same (West Baltid is Agrippa's invention, but doesn't exist in the books) - and typical for Finns. Savolaxid will be similar to the East Baltid, but not the main FInnish type (which is more Tavastid, Hallstatt and Fenno Nordid).

    [...]

    Dinaric is strong in Italy, too and I read it in some books, especially in the North and the middle, but less in the South. But Armenoid is present the same way. You can distinguish Armenids by shorter height and faces and more fleshy features, swollen noses. Dinarics have more sturdy features, longer faces, bondy noses.

    [...]

    East Med goes far into Asia actually. Sometimes they called East Med = Pontids, who are in Sciliy sometimes, but mainly Bulgaria, Ukraine, Greece. But East Med proper (not Pontid subtype) is strong in Mesopotania and Iran. Here's an example of Lundman:



    [...]

    Yes, I programmed a tool. You mark specific points in a photograph and the program automatically
    calculates the distances, then performs a factor analysis and maps the principal factors into phenotype clusters.



    [...]

    Well they should be mug-shot like (don't have to be a real mug shot). Individuals shouldn't be smiling and look straight into he camera and the angle should be from the front. Otherwise the metrics are screwed. And the surname should be typical for the region. I use a surname distribution map from public profiler. If you have such pictures of locals with their surname, it would be great to receive them
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    I use MATLAB and the image processing toolbox for it. It works fine. Like it gives you Nordid, Alpinid clusters for Central Europe..not every cluster it produces is immediately clear though. The more images are indexed, the stronger it gets. But unfortunately takes long to gather high quality photographs of people native to a specific region. But once in a while I am going work with it
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Pontid is strong in Eastern and Southern Greece according to Lundman's maps.
    It received a slavic bias in this forum, but Lundman had it mainly from East Romania over most of Greece and West Turkey.
    In low frequencies it even extends to Bavaria and Baltic states. I saw
    Italians of this type, too. Where I live, there are many Italians. But in Italy it is of course less frequent than in Balkan.

    Sicily is still has many Gracile Med / Western Med, but with Pontid, Dinaro Med and other influences that you mentioned.
    Why is that? Well the height length index (that main distinguishing feature between West and East Med)
    is 74-78 in Greece, Balkan and West Asia. But in Sciliy it is only 72-74, almost as small as in Northern Iberia, where it is 70-72.
    Dinaro Med in Biasutti's system was the Padana type, a Med subtype. It is similar to Dinarid,
    but more gracile in facial traits and in stature and with narrower noses.
    As you might suspect by the name he gave, it's storngest in Northern Italy, but still present in the South.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Well if you use those terms, you should use them in the way the anthropologists did, who made up those terms.
    If you want to use them in a 2013 way - in a different way - you should first make research and publications based on new metrical data and re define those terms.

    There are two approaches:

    1. Summarize findings classicial typological literature, a simple literature review, not re-checking the validy, just summarizing = humanphenotypes

    2. Make up new data (e.g. with anthropometry, photoanthropometry) or if you like genetic data and then run a statistical analysis that produces scientifcally valid phenotype clusters = GREAT (but nobody ever did it), I made a MATLAB tool for photoanthropometry, but I will not have the time and the photographs to index the whole world on it
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Lundman called "South Med" sometimes "Saharid" , which was a little unfortunate as the type exists in regions distant from the Sahara. But what he was bascially saying is that South Iberians are South Med and not West Med, because they are high skulled (a high valut, HLI index). So the type is valid. I prefer to say South Med, because Saharid can be confusing.

    Not all Iberians are Atlanto Med, many are not that tall/robust. And Knussmann, one of the last German typologists and professor of anthropology, wrote this about Gracile Med in 1996 :

    Southern and Western France, except Brittany, Wales, Western Ireland, South Italy , Greece, up to the Black Sea, Mediterranean Islands, parts of the Iberian Peninsula

    If you want to make up your own typology, and ignore what studied anthropologists like him wrote, it is better for you not to use these terms like "Mediterranid" at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Well the Meds living north of Sahara are high valuted, like South Iberians. That's why Lundman, who was crazy about his HLI index, connected them. But he was the only one so focused on that index, but to understand him, it is important to understand that index. Others worked out specialized desert Med type in the Saraha: The Targid of Eickstedt, the Tuareg noble Med type of Coon and the Libica type of Biasutti.

    I would see it more in that way: There is a South Med, who is high valuted in Southermost Europe and Northern Africa. A few individuals of this type you may not be sure weather they are North African or South European, but usually the differences in admixture tells it. And there is a special variety of this South Med in the Sahara, that would more deserve the name Saharid: the Targid of Eickstedt and Libica type of Biasutti. Most common in the Tuareg nobles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    I slowly get the impression it would be useful for me to first get the detailed physcial description of the types form the literature and publish them on humanphenotypes. THEN, we can discuss about their distribution. So we make sure we are talking about the same thing
    Armenoid nose is just one of many features and people exaggerate this feature sometimes on the internet. Armenids are brachycephalic, with long swollen noses, relatively thick lips, a heavy lower eyelid, strong hair growth, overall flashy facial features and a flattend occiput. Compare the occiput of an Armenoid from Crete (right) with a pred. Med guy with slight eastern influences.

    [...]

    Thing is Berbers as well as Garamentes have different phenotypes in their skulls. Berberid is just one of the Berber phenotypes (others are Berid, Saharid, Alpinoid, Nordoid, other Med types and so on). There are quite a variety of physcial types for Africa (e.g. Biasutti wrote 800 pages alone just about the anthropology, culture and the types of Africa) that nobody ever illustrated on the internet, because most posters are Euro-based. I will make them ready and then we can check for errors and see if there are contradictions with genetic evidence and we could make corrections if necessary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Baskid sare not Dinarid. People confuse them with Dinarid because of a few similarities like the nose.
    But Baskid have a round occiput, not a flat one like Dinarid.
    They are low-skulled (low HLI index), in difference to Dinarid, who are high-skulled (high HLI index). I already explained
    the difference, low vault vs high vault. The Baskid chin is not as sturdy as in Dinarid, but more pointed.

    Baskids have a very wide skull at the temples, which gives a triangular facial impression, even more so than in Dinarid and their faces tend to be wider.
    Their complexion on average is lighter than in Dinarid and yes, they are closer to the Keltic type.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    There are more local Borreby variants than that. Borreby is not only in Scandinavia, but strong in Central Europe (Germany), British islands, it is even in North Africa (according to Coon), it is in the Balkan. So I could make 5 sub-Borreby types actually But if I separate local variants for each type (like Hallstatt Nordids have an Austrian local sub-sub type, even a Spanish, Greek and an Italian one) it would get really confusing. Instead I will improve the distribution maps with more levels. You will see

    One could talk about separating the North African Borreby though, because genetic evdiences shows them to be really distinct plus the typology after 1950 placed those more and more frequently in Berberid or mentioned them to be on their own (Nordoid/Cromagnid North Africans, etc)..
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Faelid was used by many, just under different names. Guenther, Lundman, Eickstedt even in the late 20th century Baker and Knussmann. Faelids are actually Brünns (read Schwidetzky's work "Grundlagen der Rassensystematik" where she compares the typologies of Lundman, Eickstedt and Coon with each other). They may be interpreted as an eastern Brünn variety.

    [...]

    Best reference on Italy will always be Renato Biasutti: "L'Italia. I caratteri razziali." Even though new humanphenotypes will use hundreds of sources, it will never replace the works of the Italian grand master.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Amud View Post
    The Faelid morph you had before doesn't correspond to the Faelid types of actual anthropologists, though. None of Gunther's examples looked anything like your square-jawed exceptionally handsome Aryan superman. That's not a race. Overall, the average of Gunther's examples would look like Coon's Borrebies.
    Yeah, there were too many Americans in there, who often have more mixed ancestry and too many bodybuilders that show some anabolica influence etc. New samples are mainly random people of Westphalia in Northwest Germany and the Swedish Darlana region - there you find the most typical representatives. I actually live close to Westphalia and see Faelids every day Overall only few celebrities will be in the morphs now. With random native villagers from the typical regions you get much more realistic results.

    Borrebies and Faelids are very similar ineed. One difference is that Borrebies are mildly brachycephalic while Faelids are mesocephalic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    It's not a type special to Guenther really.

    There are really a lot of authors who talked about the Faelids. Some called them Dalo Nordid, Fälo Nordid, Faelic, Dalic, Dalofaelid and the like. They are mesocephals like classic Hallstatt Nordids, but wider-faced, larger-headed and more robust-bodied. It was acutally not developed by Guenther, but by Hausschild, Paudler and Kern in different works of the 1920s - they first called it Dalic. And used until the 1990s in anthropology books.

    Here are some textbook examples:







    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Well all Faelids are Brünns (in Coon's terminology) actually, but not all Brünns are Faelids
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    Detailed info on those different Med types can be found actually in Lundman's Swedish works (jordens människoraser). The reason for him to define all those types in such a detail was the height-length-index. Others rarely distinguished the Med types in such detail, because they didn't consider this index.
    Actually it is relatively simple (some basic traits):

    Littoral / Atlanto Med (in Europe) = tall, low- or medium- vaulted
    Gracile Med / West Med = short, low-valuted
    East Med = summary term for all high-valuted Med forms, this includes Pontid and South Med
    Pontid = tall, high-valuted, slight depigmentation
    South Med = short or medium height, high-valuted, a bit stronger pigmented than the others
    Orientalids = like East Meds, but with differences in soft tissue like almond eyes, often hooked noses, thicker lips, etc..

    Now you can get the maps of skull height, cephalix index, height etc provided by Coon, Lundman, Biasutti and others and you get an idea of the distribution of the types. Then you add info form the books and you have the maps, because in some places different types meet.

    And Sicily is quite a complex area, because it has so many influences. It is more or less medium-valuted - in difference to Sardinia for example that is low-valuted if you look at distribution maps. This means that western as well as eastern Med types are present in Sicily. Still has a strong Gracile Med element and some ancient Berid, both low-valuted, but it received several ancient migrations from high-valuted Orientaloids, Armenoids, East Med types and even from (usually) low-valuted Nordic types (Vikings, Vandals, etc). It's quite a dynamic place, like Germany or France, where many people crossed. It's not like the Norwegian mountain valleys, Andaman islands or Tasmania where people remained isolated for centuries and had only one unique phenotype.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatoskr View Post
    The maps will have two levels.
    One color showing a high frequency (lets say >20 % in the population) and one color a low frequency (2-20 %). This will
    allow to show distributions in a higher detail.

    As far as I've read. Greece is different that is has more Gorid, more Baltid, more Dinarid and more Pontid, too.
    Regarding metrics South Greece and Sicily are also different (see maps of Coon, Lundman):

    Sicily
    height (early 20th century): 160 cm
    cephalic index: 78
    head size (L+B): 33 cm
    cranial nasal index: 49
    height length index: 73

    Peloponnese (Greece)
    height (early 20th century): 168 cm
    cephalic index: 82
    head size (L+B): 34 cm
    cranial nasal index: 45
    height length index: 77

    So Peloponnese are taller, shorter-headed, larger-headed, narrower-nosed and higher-skulled.
    How would you interpret those differences?

    My guess:
    Height and higher skulls in Greece comes from more Dinarid and Pontid.
    Brachycephaly from more Dinarid / Gorid / Baltid
    Longer noses from more Dinarid.

    In fact South Italy was not described to have much Dinarid / Dinaro Med (in contrast to old humanphenotypes and some of your posts). I was surprised at first, but the books are quite homogenous here.
    Biasutti called the long/curved-nosed South Italian element "tipo Campano" and said it is Armenoid (like other authors like Coon).
    But he left the question open if it came from oriental migrations or if it is rather a convergent evolution. North Italy is
    more Dinarid though.

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    so according to this site, if this whole thing is even real or this site is accurate in any way, the geographic distribution of phenotypes in Europe around 1500 ad would be something like this:

    British Isles
    Major:
    North Atlantid-common throughout the entire region
    Paleo atlantid-common in most of ireland and large part of scotland, found occasionally in other parts of the region
    Tronder-common in northeastern england and eastern scotland, occasionally in the rest of Britain except Wales and southwestern portion of England, occasionally in Eastern Ireland
    Anglo Saxon
    Hallstatt
    Borreby
    Dinarid-only common in a few very small areas, in most other parts of the region, only occasionally seen
    Eurafricanid-only common in wales, absent in Eastern Scotland and southwest valley as well as central-east england
    Litorid-common in southwest ireland, northeast scotland, and almost all of southern england, occasionally throughout the rest of the isles
    Gracile Mediterranean-common in wales and a small section of ireland, occasionally seen in the rest
    minor appearances
    paleo sardinian, only in wales
    berberid, wales and west england (very odd??)
    west alpinid, all of britain except north of scotland
    strandid, ireland and scotland
    baskid, wales and southwest england
    tavastid, eastern-central england and little bit of scotland as well as parts of ireland
    faelid, all of britain
    assyroid, most of england and wales (very odd??)
    weak traces of gracile indid in one of the midland areas of england (highly unusual???)

    Iberia
    major
    gracile mediterranid
    eurafricanid-eastern spain to basque country, all of portugal, only sometimes found in the other areas of spain
    litorid, northern portugal, basque country, eastern and southern spain
    north atlantid-galicia and northern spain
    baskid-basque region
    trans mediterranid-southern portugal and southern spain, occasionally found through the rest of the peninsular
    libyid, common in south central-eastern spain, absent in northern spain
    berberid-common in pockets of deep southern spain and deep southern portugal, occasionally elsewhere
    canarid-common in the canary islands
    hallstatt-common in galicia, spain and french-spanish border
    dinarid-common in asturias and galicia, spain as well as the french-spanish border
    armenid-commonly seen in pocket of southwest spain
    west alpine-common along northern spain
    minor phenotypes
    african alpinoid-southern spain
    Scando Lappid-looks to be a tiny portion on the spanish side of the basque region (weird)
    Paleo Sardinian-found in northern portugal, northern spain, and eastern-southern spain, rare in the inland and in most of portugal
    Arabid-found in all of Iberia except for Galicia, Asturias, and Extremadura but is found in the Basque part (strange), Extremadura was historically part of Muslim Spain and the Basque region was never even touched by the Arabs but this site says otherwise.
    Really unusual traces on the peninsula
    Moorish-small pocket in Southern Portugal and Southwest Spain
    Sudanid??? Pocket in Southwest Spain and Southern Portugal!!!
    Gracile indid-small pocket near Barcelona (Gypsies maybe?)

    Israel (Not Part of Europe), should give insight to the original appearances of the ancient Jews

    common
    Arabid
    Assyroid
    Armenid
    pocket of Iranid
    pocket of Proto Nordid
    east alpine
    occasionally found
    anatolid
    gracile mediterranid
    Proto Iranid
    Libyid
    eurafricanid
    berberid
    trans mediterranid
    pontid
    litorid
    egyptid
    yemenid

    Greece
    common
    gracile mediterranid
    paleo sardinian in a couple pockets
    west alpinid in one pocket of northern greece
    litorid
    dinarid in central-northern greece
    armenid in southern greece or the islands
    pockets of anatolid
    pontid
    pocket of east alpine
    proto nordid in a pocket of northern greece
    north pontid in a pocket of northern greece
    neo danubian in a pocket of northern greece

    sometimes found
    pockets of arabid in the islands of southern greece (probably from the century long arab domination of crete as well as possible connections to the near east from earlier times)
    trans mediterranid
    eurafricanid
    berberid
    Hallstatt, found in northeast part of greece
    borreby
    gorid
    pre slavic
    alfold
    carpathid
    norid

    really unusual traces in Greece from humanphenotypes
    Gracile Indid???
    Indo Brachild??

    Southeast Europe (excluding Greece)
    major
    Dinarid
    Norid
    Pontid
    Proto Nordid
    North Pontid
    Litorid
    Gracile Mediterranid
    Eurafricanid
    Borreby
    East Alpinid
    Carpathid
    Alfold
    Anatolid
    Andronovo-Turanid
    pre slavic
    neo danubian
    types occasionally seen
    Ladogan
    Tavastid
    Dalofaelid
    Tronder
    Hallstatt
    pocket of North Atlantid at Serbian-Hungarian border
    Plains pamirid
    aralid
    paleo sardinian
    armenid
    Assyroid
    weird traces in Southeast Europe
    Indo Brachid
    Gracile Indid

    Italy (excluding Sardinia and Sicily)
    major
    Gracile Mediterranid
    Litorid
    North Atlantid
    Hallstatt in the north
    Norid
    Carpathid
    West Alpinid
    Dinarid
    Paleo Sardinian
    Eurafricanid
    Pontid
    pockets of Armenid
    Neo Danubian
    Gorid
    Pre Slavic
    minor phenotypes
    Trans Mediterranid in parts of the south (probably a mixture of saracen raiders, slaves from roman times, and proximity to muslim sicily)
    Berberid in parts of Calabria (probably a mixture of saracen raiders, slaves from roman times, and proximity to Muslim Sicily)
    Arabid (probably a mixture of Jews, slaves from roman times, saracen raiders, arab merchants, and in the case of Calabria, proximity to Muslim Sicily)
    Anatolid
    Dalofaelid
    Proto Nordid
    anglo saxon
    tronder
    Paleo Atlantid, found around the French-Swiss-Italian border
    borreby
    assyroid
    unusual traces in Italy
    weak trace of Gracile Indid in the North (How the fuck did it get there or to Eastern Europe, Greece, Spain, and England for that matter???)


    Sardinia
    common phenotypes
    Paleo Sardinian
    Gracile Mediterranean
    Litorid
    minor phenotypes
    Tronder
    west alpine
    Berberid
    Eurafricanid
    Trans Mediterranid

    Sicily

    Major phenotypes/looks found most often/strong traces
    Gracile mediterranid common throughout the island
    Paleo sardinian common in the east
    Armenid common along the southern coast, further inland southeast, and at the northeastern tip
    Minor phenotypes/looks found sometimes/weak traces
    Paleo sardinian sometimes found throughout the rest of the island
    Armenid sometimes found along the northern coast
    Arabid sometimes found throughout the island (phenotype found in Sicily probably resulting from the mixture of Ancient Phoenician settlements and later conquest and settlement from Arabia during the 9th and 10th centuries, Jewish settlement also possible as well as slaves during Roman times, also Arab merchants)
    Libyid traces found throughout the island (phenotype probably originating from three layers of North African influence in the Sicilian population, the Sicanians, the Carthaginians, and later conquest and settlement from North Africa during the 9th, 10th, and 11th centuries, roman slavery also possible)
    Berberid sometimes found throughout the island (same as noted above)
    Anatolid traces found throughout the island
    Trans mediterranid sometimes found throughout the island (same as noted with Libyid and Berberid)
    Pontid traces found throughout the island
    Eurafricanid traces found throughout the island
    West alpinid sometimes found throughout the island
    Tronder occasionally found along the northeastern half of the northern coast
    Dalofaelid occasionally found throughout much of the island except parts of the eastern coast and along the western coast
    Borreby occasionally found throughout most of the island except parts of the eastern coast
    Litorid sometimes found throughout the island

    Malta
    common
    armenid
    gracile mediterranid
    occasionally found
    paleo sardinian
    arabid
    libyid
    berberid
    trans mediterranid
    anatolid
    eurafricanid
    west alpine
    pontid
    borreby
    Dalofaelid

  8. #718
    New Member tritolone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
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    11-30-2020 @ 06:39 PM
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Ancestry
    Albanian
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Ontario
    Y-DNA
    G2a2b2a (G-Z29424) paternal grandmother line:I1-M253 (Z2535), maternal line I2a-dinC (Z17855)
    mtDNA
    H7, father:U1a3
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    anybody know why they changed the paleoatlantid morph? The original one was what I was getting the best match with Attachment 103363 It's not even similar, especially the woman she was a 10, now she looks like farmer.
    Screen-Shot-2019-08-13-at-8-00-44-PM

  9. #719
    New Member
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    10-14-2023 @ 08:36 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Germanic, Slavic, Romance
    Ethnicity
    German, Ukrainian, Italian
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    Anti-Revisionist Marxism-Leninism
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    Why is the http://humanphenotypes.net/ website appear to be down? Can anyone contact the administrator and tell him to fix it?

  10. #720
    Banned
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    Sep 2020
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    09-12-2023 @ 03:47 PM
    Location
    コミ共和国
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Finno-Permic
    Ethnicity
    Peasant
    Ancestry
    コミ
    Country
    Finland
    Taxonomy
    Karaboğa (euryprosopic, platyrrhine, dolichocephalic)
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    Default

    I archived the website a year ago by running `wget -U mozilla -m humanphenotypes.net`. All three mirrors I posted earlier are now down, but here's new ones (about 10 MB):

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/10nD...ew?usp=sharing
    http://www.mediafire.com/file/883awo...01-18.tbz/file
    https://mega.nz/file/d9NwnLxa#lPjmKs...mmJQS1_8Ea7Z6k

    Maybe if the website stays down, we can mirror it on this domain, like the SNPA website and Karl Earlson's website. However I'm not sure if Ratatoskr would be OK with it, or if he even approved of the mirror at humanphenotypes.net. Even if Ratatoskr would be OK with mirroring the website, maybe he wouldn't want it to be associated with a moronic forum like this.

    Maybe he deleted the original website for a reason. I used to have multiple oldschool static websites like his website, and I spent thousands of hours working on them. But I deleted them all at one point, and I even excluded them from the Wayback Machine. I wouldn't want anyone to mirror my websites, so maybe Ratatoskr feels the same way about HPT.

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