Do you think Russian colonialism in Asia is justified? Because they experienced genocide by Mongols?

[Hoca]

I don't think it has to do with justification. History is not written with justification, only power counts. Russia conquered just like others. If Russia didn't conquer it, the Chinese would. I'm in favor of Russia. They keep central asia save from Chinese invasion until Turkey can take over that role. Turkic army federation is already accomplished this year. Russians and Turks were competitors but will come alies.

http://www.blackseanews.net/en/read/55291

[Illancha]

To even suggest something like this is quite telling.

The fact that they may have been conquered by others is no excuse.

[Proto-Shaman]

The Mongol-Tatar Yoke is a fancy theory... says Prof. Dr. Pjotr Chomjakow. He even states that the "terrifying Mongol Horde" was the old Russian (Slavic-Turkic) state itself!
http://molodidov-cossacks.com/?p=28427

I don't know wheather there is an English version. Above you can read it up in Russiand and German at least.

[Albion]

It was justified in the search for lebensraum. The lesser peoples of Siberia left it underpopulated and underutilized, it is not such a bad thing that it is now an extension of Europe via Russia.

[Twistedmind]

It was justified in the search for lebensraum. The lesser peoples of Siberia left it underpopulated and underutilized, it is not such a bad thing that it is now an extension of Europe via Russia.

Yep. Vast majority of Siberia was not inhabited for start. All tribes survived, they live on same places where they lived previously, and some like Yakuts multiplied a lot.

[Vesuvian Sky]

This is a good question and I recently had a go about this with my friend. His claim was, the Russian state developed out of a need to protect itself from the Asiatic hordes, the Turco-Mongol groups etc. And indeed this seemed valid as the Mongols ruthlessy destroyed the earliest Russian state, Kievan Rus, leveling it to the ground. Ergo Muscovite Princesses had to slowly rebuild military force against Kazan Tatars. Totally understandable.

On the other hand some consequences of Russian Imperialism are perhaps less justifiable:

-Subjucation of Uralic Reindeer herding people (Tuvans and the like...not sure what they did to Moscow)
-Subjucation of Tajik people/Bukharians who, as far as I can tell, did not war overly meddle in Russia's affairs, yet Moscow had a tendency to be heavy handed with them
-Genocide of Kazkakhs and hanging of Kennesary Khan. I don't think this was warranted and it seems the Kazakhs just wanted their own independent Khanate. Kazakhstan then became a "dumping ground" during Soviet times.
-Russian colonization of Alaska: was quite brutal. Russian Orthodox church actually came in as a champion of the locals but Russian Fur Trading company often expoited natives cruely.

[Vesuvian Sky]

I don't see any Mohican or Iroquois state on USA map but I see a lot of native ethnic oblasts and republics on the map of Russian Federation.

They have some automony but the reservations can equally be viewed as prisons. One the other hand, some run casinos where morons go to blow a few pay checks. There are definitely tribes that were totally obliterated though.

My one "Cossack" friend luvs to bring this up when we debate US vs. Russian imperialism. And yes Kazakhs did emerge with their own state (though a slightly comprimised identity) as did Tajiks (though their state is rather impoverished...development is slow and steady there but they have alot of issues and Soviet policy towards them one could argue partly stunted their growth since they typcially recieved the least from Moscow over the years).

US policy during the age of "Manifest Destiny" towards Natives was mostly about obliteration rather then compromise, assimilation. However tribes still exist and its more apparent in the Mid-west. Non-existence more or less defines the NE.

One question though: weren't there some total eliminatations of certain Turco-Mongol tribes during Russian imperialist times?

[Tanais]

Ofc Vatican Colonialism is not justyfiable. Colonization itself is an evilish attitude. It bears only Terror and suffering.

[RussiaPrussia]

To even suggest something like this is quite telling.

The fact that they may have been conquered by others is no excuse.

dude like i said its about the asian tribes its not about caucasus. Caucasus isnt morally justified imo just like it isnt justified for iran to hold azeri land and for turkey to hold kuridish land.

[Illancha]

dude like i said its about the asian tribes its not about caucasus. Caucasus isnt morally justified imo just like it isnt justified for iran to hold azeri land and for turkey to hold kuridish land.

Really? Wow thanks, that's quite the revelation. Then how come you keep arguing with me about it?