Semu mediurienti? [Are we Middle Eastern?]

[alfieb]

A lot of people fit into that mold. Russians, most notably, but also arguably Finns, Estonians, Armenians, Georgians, among others. The further you are from the heartland of Europe, the more peripheral you are. I'd imagine that Slavs would want the heartland to be seen as Poland or something, but I think it's more realistic to say that the center of the European world is in Germany or Benelux.

[Sikeliot]

A lot of people fit into that mold. Russians, most notably, but also arguably Finns, Estonians, Armenians, Georgians, among others. The further you are from the heartland of Europe, the more peripheral you are.

I'd want to know how Sicilians who have lived their whole lives in Sicily feel -- do they feel a collective sense of "European-ness" and akin to the groups we think of as definitively European (Germans, Brits, Swedes, Danes, French, Poles)? Or would they feel closer to say, an Israeli or a Maronite from Lebanon? Or would they just feel close to any Mediterranean and not think much of anyone else?

[alfieb]

I can't tell you, as I've never had that conversation.

I'd imagine that the Sarkozy view - that there should be a Mediterranean version of the EU (which was, unfortunately, ruined by EU member states that don't border the Mediterranean insisting that the entire EU get involved) has some adherents in Sicily and the rest of the region.

[curupira]

Dodecad Oracle K12b results for Sicilians DodecadOracle(c(4.5, 0, 4.1, 0, 30, 11.9, 0.1, 0.7, 11.9, 0, 36.5, 0.2),k=82)
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "Sicilian_D" "0"
[2,] "S_Italian_Sicilian_D" "2.0372"
[3,] "Ashkenazi_D" "5.728"
[4,] "Ashkenazy_Jews" "6.1514"
[5,] "Sephardic_Jews" "8.5417"
[6,] "C_Italian_D" "9.14"
[7,] "Greek_D" "9.5525"
[8,] "Morocco_Jews" "11.3119"
[9,] "Tuscan" "13.586"
[10,] "O_Italian_D" "14.2681"
[11,] "TSI30" "15.023"
[12,] "Cypriots" "18.674"
[13,] "Turkish_D" "22.4515"
[14,] "N_Italian_D" "22.4562"
[15,] "North_Italian" "23.0712"
[16,] "Lebanese" "24.4963"
[17,] "Turks" "25.3839"
[18,] "Bulgarian_D" "25.5078"
[19,] "Bulgarians_Y" "25.5198"
[20,] "Romanians" "27.0797"
[21,] "Druze" "27.2584"
[22,] "Syrians" "27.3287"
[23,] "Jordanians" "28.2335"
[24,] "Palestinian" "29.5845"
[25,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "30.6358"
[26,] "Armenian_D" "31.8251"
[27,] "Iraq_Jews" "32.1936"
[28,] "Georgia_Jews" "32.1969"
[29,] "Assyrian_D" "32.2557"
[30,] "Baleares_1KG" "32.3099"
[31,] "Azerbaijan_Jews" "32.472"
[32,] "Samaritians" "32.8393"
[33,] "Canarias_1KG" "32.9106"
[34,] "Armenians_15_Y" "33.0643"
[35,] "Egyptans" "33.7769"
[36,] "Armenians" "33.9813"
[37,] "Galicia_1KG" "34.0018"
[38,] "Murcia_1KG" "34.1322"
[39,] "Iranian_Jews" "34.1568"
[40,] "Extremadura_1KG" "34.1792"
[41,] "Andalucia_1KG" "34.499"
[42,] "Portuguese_D" "34.5936"
[43,] "Kurds_Y" "34.7438"
[44,] "Kumyks_Y" "35.0435"
[45,] "Nogais_Y" "35.0601"
[46,] "Kurd_D" "35.2036"
[47,] "Iranian_D" "35.6347"
[48,] "Castilla_Y_Leon_1KG" "36.4309"
[49,] "Iranians" "37.0236"
[50,] "Spaniards" "37.2466"
[51,] "Turkmens_Y" "37.8539"
[52,] "Spanish_D" "38.1709"
[53,] "Cataluna_1KG" "38.6322"
[54,] "Castilla_La_Mancha_1KG" "38.7692"
[55,] "Valencia_1KG" "39.4469"
[56,] "Adygei" "39.8786"
[57,] "Cantabria_1KG" "39.9153"
[58,] "Balkars_Y" "40.3194"
[59,] "Aragon_1KG" "40.3742"
[60,] "Bedouin" "40.64"
[61,] "Yemenese" "40.6711"
[62,] "North_Ossetians_Y" "41.1314"
[63,] "Chechens_Y" "41.3293"
[64,] "French" "41.4464"
[65,] "French_D" "41.7917"
[66,] "Lezgins" "42.3421"
[67,] "Hungarians" "43.0194"
[68,] "Algerian_D" "43.0421"
[69,] "Sardinian" "45.6668"
[70,] "Tajiks_Y" "46.5276"
[71,] "German_D" "46.5705"
[72,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "46.9595"
[73,] "Uzbeks" "48.1134"
[74,] "Abhkasians_Y" "48.4185"
[75,] "Dutch_D" "48.9652"
[76,] "Kent_1KG" "49.3787"
[77,] "CEU30" "50.0421"
[78,] "English_D" "50.0437"
[79,] "Cornwall_1KG" "50.4189"
[80,] "Yemen_Jews" "51.0408"
[81,] "Georgians" "51.185"
[82,] "British_D" "51.2282"

The Dodecad Oracle K12b results of Sardinians, Sardinians look a lot more isolated, and much less similar to Near Eastern groups:

DodecadOracle(c(0, 0, 2.6, 0, 70.5, 0, 0.1, 0, 5.8, 0, 20.9, 0),k=82)
[,1] [,2]

[1,] "Sardinian" "0"
[2,] "Andalucia_1KG" "27.8808"
[3,] "French_Basque" "29.5369"
[4,] "Aragon_1KG" "29.6189"
[5,] "Valencia_1KG" "29.9977"
[6,] "Castilla_La_Mancha_1KG" "30.0554"
[7,] "Murcia_1KG" "30.2762"
[8,] "Cantabria_1KG" "31.3616"
[9,] "Spaniards" "31.3772"
[10,] "Baleares_1KG" "32.0903"
[11,] "Castilla_Y_Leon_1KG" "32.151"
[12,] "Spanish_D" "32.1528"
[13,] "Pais_Vasco_1KG" "32.5507"
[14,] "Canarias_1KG" "33.0556"
[15,] "Extremadura_1KG" "33.9464"
[16,] "Cataluna_1KG" "34.1928"
[17,] "Galicia_1KG" "34.1991"
[18,] "North_Italian" "34.8442"
[19,] "Portuguese_D" "34.8643"
[20,] "N_Italian_D" "38.1997"
[21,] "TSI30" "38.3863"
[22,] "Tuscan" "39.2018"
[23,] "C_Italian_D" "41.5196"
[24,] "O_Italian_D" "44.1291"
[25,] "Sicilian_D" "45.6668"
[26,] "S_Italian_Sicilian_D" "45.8996"
[27,] "French" "47.4213"
[28,] "Morocco_Jews" "47.5453"
[29,] "French_D" "48.1393"
[30,] "Sephardic_Jews" "49.2268"
[31,] "Greek_D" "50.1997"
[32,] "Ashkenazi_D" "50.364"
[33,] "Ashkenazy_Jews" "51.231"
[34,] "Cornwall_1KG" "55.4284"
[35,] "British_D" "56.3811"
[36,] "Kent_1KG" "56.5052"
[37,] "English_D" "57.356"
[38,] "CEU30" "57.5103"
[39,] "Mixed_Germanic_D" "57.7731"
[40,] "British_Isles_D" "57.9036"
[41,] "Bulgarians_Y" "58.25"
[42,] "Irish_D" "58.4582"
[43,] "Dutch_D" "58.7907"
[44,] "Romanians" "58.9658"
[45,] "Orcadian" "59.0778"
[46,] "Bulgarian_D" "59.1776"
[47,] "Cypriots" "59.1804"
[48,] "Argyll_1KG" "59.4114"
[49,] "Orkney_1KG" "59.9426"
[50,] "Algerian_D" "61.0472"
[51,] "German_D" "62.6863"
[52,] "Moroccan_D" "65.1323"
[53,] "Turkish_D" "65.205"
[54,] "Hungarians" "65.4899"
[55,] "Lebanese" "65.7043"
[56,] "Syrians" "66.5019"
[57,] "Jordanians" "66.8934"
[58,] "Palestinian" "67.395"
[59,] "Druze" "67.5498"
[60,] "Turks" "67.9666"
[61,] "Egyptans" "68.4834"
[62,] "Norwegian_D" "68.7287"
[63,] "Moroccans" "69.3242"
[64,] "Samaritians" "71.2424"
[65,] "Swedish_D" "71.5508"
[66,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "71.7075"
[67,] "Iraq_Jews" "71.8236"
[68,] "Assyrian_D" "72.1288"
[69,] "Armenian_D" "72.1616"
[70,] "Azerbaijan_Jews" "72.4082"
[71,] "Turkmens_Y" "73.6353"
[72,] "Armenians_15_Y" "73.6393"
[73,] "Georgia_Jews" "73.6641"
[74,] "Bedouin" "73.814"
[75,] "Kurd_D" "74.056"
[76,] "Iranians" "74.0793"
[77,] "Armenians" "74.1024"
[78,] "Kurds_Y" "74.1332"
[79,] "Iranian_Jews" "74.1455"
[80,] "Iranian_D" "74.3062"
[81,] "Nogais_Y" "74.4791"
[82,] "Yemenese" "75.2693"

And yet Sardinia and Sicily are not that far, and have had a similar culture (Catholic and Romance speaking), quite surprising, isn't it?

[alfieb]

Our nearest outside match is a distance of 5 (Ashkenazim) while theirs is 27 (S. Spaniards), so yeah, there is quite a gap between us (and everyone else) with Sardinians.