The Catholic legacy of Sicily

[alfieb]

Is this serious? Mexico is a consequence of Mestizos and Criollos, which in turn are a consequence of Spanish colonization in the area. "Spain" did not fuck Mexico over. Mexico started only when Spanish Viceroyalty was deposed. Before that there was no Mexico.

Well, since Mexica was the name of the Aztec people, and Mexico City was their capital, that claim is dubious. That's like saying that there was no Sicily before the Romans, because they were the first ones to create a centralized government for the entire island.

[Han Cholo]

Well, since Mexica was the name of the Aztec people, and Mexico City was their capital, that claim is dubious. That's like saying that there was no Sicily before the Romans, because they were the first ones to create a centralized government for the entire island.

Indeed. Which is why I don't feel the name "Mexico" suit me at all, nor at leasdt 75% of the country. Aztec empire did not correspond to modern Mexican borders. Aztec empire does not represent most Mestizos. Aztec empire does not even represent most indigenous people. There is no continuity between Aztec Empire and independent Mexico. When modern Mexico was established Aztec had already been dead for 200 years.

[alfieb]

And the Sicels were a tribe on the East Coast of Sicily. My family is from West/Central Sicily. I am not a Sicel. I live with it.

[Sikeliot]

I would wonder if anyone today has much ancestry from the Sikels since the Greeks drove them out of the cities and away from the coast. Maybe people living further inland?

[Vesuvian Sky]

Had a discussion like this before w/ Sik...Spanish influence in S. Italy: seems overstated in importance really. No one in my family ever thinks about this era of S. Italian history. I'm usually more interested in the substantial Greek cultural strata laid down during the Iron Age and my grandma and mom usually acknowledge the contributions of Savoy, and my Grandma the Normans and the role both factions played in Italian history rather then Spanish influence.

[alfieb]

Had a discussion like this before w/ Sik...Spanish influence in S. Italy: seems overstated in importance really. No one in my family ever thinks about this era of S. Italian history. I'm usually more interested in the substantial Greek cultural strata laid down during the Iron Age and my grandma and mom usually acknowledge the contributions of Savoy, and my Grandma the Normans and the role both factions played in Italian history rather then Spanish influence.

No, more that it's understated because it was boring and uneventful on its face, but as I illustrated in the first post, we went from wealthy, Orthodox and multicultural to poor, Latin and Catholic in a very short period of time, and it wasn't the Normans to blame at all.

Naples became the #2 largest city in Europe under the Spanish. Under the Normans and the Swabians, it was just another Greek city in Italy.

[Vesuvian Sky]

No, more that it's understated because it was boring and uneventful on its face, but as I illustrated in the first post, we went from wealthy, Orthodox and multicultural to poor, Latin and Catholic in a very short period of time, and it wasn't the Normans to blame at all.

Naples became the #2 largest city in Europe under the Spanish. Under the Normans and the Swabians, it was just another Greek city in Italy.

But is there really a significant cultural legacy to Spanish influence in S. Italy or is it really just a political thing more?

[Sikeliot]

No southern Italian I know or Sicilian even thinks about Spain to be honest.. those of us who think of ourselves as anything other than plain old Italian think of Greeks, Phoenicians, Arabs, Normans, and Italy.

We don't give a fuck about Spain and rightfully so. They're not in our identity or our psyche. It's always the groups I mentioned above.

[alfieb]

But is there really a significant cultural legacy to Spanish influence in S. Italy or is it really just a political thing more?

They kicked everyone out who wasn't Catholic, they gave Malta away, and ruled us by viceroys for hundreds of years. A negative legacy, but a legacy nonetheless.

It's not a matter of being proud of Spain or admiring the history or whatever, but acknowledging the fact that things changed in Sicily, and in the Kingdom of Naples, in the hundreds of years under Spanish and Aragonese rule.

One significant thing the Spanish were involved with was the Sicilian baroque period. Mostly on the East Coast, though.

[Sikeliot]

I acknowledge the legacy but not as an integral part of our identity or anything we should look at with anything but scorn.