Peoples of the Caucasus

[Wild North]

It appears to be a very diverse region, ethnically speaking. And there are now much controversies around it.

In Russia, for instance, is it Pan-Slavism vs. Pan-Caucasism?

I don´t think it´s possible to generalize about the peoples in this region. They seem to ethnically, linguistically, religiously and even racially diverse. Yet there are it seems kinda much interest in it, considering it is being debated on internet forums.. People wonder are they white?, are they Semitic?, Middle Eastern? or just Asian?.. But I think it would be hard to generalize, and I realize that not all of them can be "white" in the European sense, although many of them may be. And some of their detractors may consider them "Semitic". But the only Semitic connections apparently are scattered groups of Jews living here, and that the Arab-Islamic empire occupied parts of it in the 600-700s.

Ethno-lingual/cultural groups:

1. Caucasian

2. Altaic-Turkic

3. Indo European


Religions:

1. Islam

2. (Orthodox) Christianity

3. Judaism

4. Buddhism?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_of_the_Caucasus

Note: Noticed that this article even include Slavic groups (?)

[Wild North]

Are the only "genuine" Caucasians, those speaking Caucasian languages?

[Pontios]

There are many nationalities in the Caucasus, some are even close to being gone.

People like the Chechens and Dagestanis are natives to the Caucasus, they are of the Nakh people, people like the Ossetians are an Iranian group of people.

They are all very different but their cultures are very similar.

[Illancha]

This is really quite a complex topic to cover. The Caucasus is a region of incredible diversity and wealth of history.

The indigenous people of the Caucasus are:
1. Adyghe which includes all Circassian tribes
2. Georgians
3. Nakh historically was a very large group, but now the only surviving subgroup are the Waynakh (often spelled Vainakh) Chechens, Ingush and Kists and the non-Waynakh Bats
4. Certain ethnicities from modern day Dagestan (possibly in excess of 30 different ethnicites including Avars, Dargins and Laks)

Even on their own each of these groups is very diverse.

There are certainly differences among the various ethnicites, from vastly different languages to regional customs to forms of governance and societal structure. Overall though they are connected by their unique mountain culture. One only needs to view their traditional dress, dancing and music and the similarities are immediately obvious.

I would say for an outsider, those differences are completely indistinguishable unless directly pointed out. For someone like me who is extremely familiar with the region, however, it is easy to tell the different ethnicities apart whether by looks, temperament, general conduct or even how one holds himself.

I can say for certain none of the indigenously spoken languages are influenced by foreign languages or even by each other. In Dagestan, even neighbouring villages spoke entirely different languages. However, despite this the indigenious languages are classified together as Caucasian languages.

I believe the Caucasus deserves an identity of its own. It is not European, West-Asian or Middle Eastern.

[Wild North]

This is really quite a complex topic to cover. The Caucasus is a region of incredible diversity and wealth of history.

The indigineous people of the Caucasus are:
1. Adyghe which includes all Circassian tribes
2. Georgians
3. Nakh historically was a very large group, but now the only surviving subgroup are the Waynakh (often spelled Vainakh) Chechens, Ingush and Kists and the non-Waynakh Bats
4. Certain ethnicities from modern day Dagestan (possibly in excess of 30 different ethnicites including Avars, Dargins and Laks)

Even on their own each of these groups is very diverse.

There are certainly differences among the various ethnicites, from vastly different languages to regional customs to forms of governance and societal structure. Overall though they are connected by their unique mountain culture. One only needs to view their traditional dress, dancing and music and the similarities are immediately obvious.

I would say for an outsider, those differences are completely indistinguishable unless directly pointed out. For someone like me who is extremely familiar with the region, however, it is easy to tell the different ethnicities apart whether by looks, temperament, general conduct or even how one holds himself.

I can say for certain none of the indigineously spoken languages are influenced by foreign languages or even by each other. In Dagestan, even neighbouring villages spoke entirely different languages. However, despite this the indigenious languages are classified together as Caucasian languages.

I believe the Caucasus deserves an identity of its own. It is not European, West-Asian or Middle Eastern.

Noxcho, do you perhaps know. I had the peculiar region/ or republic of Daghestan in mind, inhabited by many ethnic groups. Read little about it´s history, and it said that the Arabs incorporated it into their empire, thus Islam was established there early on. But I was wondering could the Dagestanians possibly be somewhat mixed with Arabs? Is it me or.. I was comparing pictures of Dagestanians and Chechens-Ingushes, and in some of the Dagestanians I saw a remarkable "Arabic" influence in contrast to the Chechens. And there is a rather high frequency of J1 Y-DNA in Daghestan, and if I´m correct it would be quite common among Arabs.

[Yalquzaq]

I can say for certain none of the indigineously spoken languages are influenced by foreign languages or even by each other.

Lezgin and few other Dagestani dialects are highly influenced by Azerbaijani Turkish.

In general, Turkic languages dominated Dagestan (except west of it).

[Illancha]

Noxcho, do you perhaps know. I had the peculiar region/ or republic of Daghestan in mind, inhabited by many ethnic groups. Read little about it´s history, and it said that the Arabs incorporated it into their empire, thus Islam was established there early on. But I was wondering could the Dagestanians possibly be somewhat mixed with Arabs? Is it me or.. I was comparing pictures of Dagestanians and Chechens-Ingushes, and in some of the Dagestanians I saw a remarkable "Arabic" influence in contrast to the Chechens. And there is a rather high frequency of J1 Y-DNA in Daghestan, and if I´m correct it would be quite common among Arabs.

Arabs first arrived in the very late 7th century. They conquered the Southern regions of Dagestan up to Derbent (they never got any further) and it became part of the early Islamic Empire. I am not sure exactly which Dagestani ethnicities came into contact with Arabs. However I expect there was no significant mixing because Arab rule did not last very long. The Arabs retreated from the region and they were soon replaced by Persians. I expect Persian influence will be greater simply because they are both closer and have had ties to the region for longer, but I really cannot say for sure.

Lezgin and few other Dagestani dialects are highly influenced by Azerbaijani Turkish (Azerbaijan Turkish was the lingua-franca of Southern Dagestan for centuries). So much that you can observe the Turkic "-lar" plural suffix in Lezgin.

Yes this is true, but as I said earlier not all ethnicities of Dagestan are indigenous people. Historically, migrants passing through the Caucasus often settled there and because of the mountainous terrain they would remain isolated from the natives which enabled them to preserve their languages. However with time they would come into contact with the natives and adopt their culture and lifestyle.

[Wild North]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Jews

At first, one may imagine that they may be descended from surviving Khazars, but apparently they aren´t according to the article.

[Illancha]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Jews

At first, one may imagine that they may be descended from surviving Khazars, but apparently they aren´t according to the article.

Yeah the Mountain Jews of the Caucasus are not Khazars.

We have a Jewish tribe as well in Chechnya.

By the way here is a wikipedia page that you might find interesting especially the part about minority/foreign teips.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teip

[Yalquzaq]

Yes this is true, but as I said earlier not all ethnicities of Dagestan are indigenous people. Historically, migrants passing through the Caucasus often settled there and because of the mountainous terrain they would remain isolated from the natives which enabled them to preserve their languages. However with time they would come into contact with the natives and adopt their culture and lifestyle.

Are you saying that Lezgins and other Southern Dagestani peoples are not indigenous Caucasian?