Do these have any meaning in Turkic?

[Szegedist]

Do these have any meaning in Turkic?

tribe names
djarmat (gyarmat)
jenő
kesi (keszi)
kér
kürt
medjer (megyer)
njék (nyék)
tarján
berénj (berény)
eslár/oslár (eszlár/olszár)
őrsh (őrs)
tarkánj (tarkány)
varshánj (varsány)
sabar (szabar)
káliz/kálaz
kazár
sékej (székely)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t_names%29.jpg



Ranks/titles
djula (Gyula )
Horka
Kende/Kündü

[Hayalet]

kürt = Kurd
berénj (berény) = Beren? Personal name in modern Turkish, supposedly means powerful, wise or famous.
eslár/oslár (eszlár/olszár) = -lar is the plural suffix in Turkic.
őrsh (őrs) = Anvil
tarkánj (tarkány) = Hunnic rank of unclear origin, masculine personal name in modern Turkish.
sabar (szabar) = From the Sabirs?
kazár = Probably the same etymology as Khazar, gezer in Turkish, the one(s) who travel.
Kende/Kündü = Kendi, self, himself/herself.

[Onur]

You better tell us first if these words have any meaning in Magyar speech, so we can make a comparison.

djarmat (gyarmat);
This is probably the word of "yarmak". I checked the online dictionary to be sure of all the meanings of it. It means, "cutting something to pieces". Also means "drawing a new border in a territory", So, cutting a piece from a land from it.

kesi (keszi);
This one sounds like Turkic but i am not sure. Is it something about "cutting" again? "Kes" means cut in Turkish. Kesi means incision

kürt;
"Wolf" maybe, Kurt in Turkic.

tarkánj (tarkány), tarján;
This might be "Tarkan, Tarhan, Tar-khan". Tarkans was the 2nd man in hierarchy after the great Khan.

őrsh (őrs);
This means "anvil" in Turkish. These words was quite popular among Turkic tribes because they were the masters in blacksmith.

sabar (szabar);
Sabar, Sabir is the name of a certain Turkic tribe. We have a territory named for them as Siberia in today`s Russia, meaning the land of Sabars.

sékej (székely);
I checked dictionary for this too. This might be "Saka", meaning "hillside" of a mountain. This might be a name of a particular land beside a mountain.



berénj (berény), eslár/oslár (eszlár/olszár), Kende/Kündü;
These sounds similar to Turkic but cant be sure.

jenő, njék (nyék), varshánj (varsány), káliz/kálaz, djula (Gyula), Horka
These doesn't sound like Turkic words.

[Onur]

kazár = Probably the same etymology as Khazar, gezer in Turkish, the one(s) who travel.

Yes, this word should be "gezer" in modern Turkish, meaning "wanderer, traveler", in other word, nomads. Most likely the word Khazar is a version of "gazar, gezer". The transformation of the letters "G and K" is quite common in Turkic languages. We Oghuz speakers uses "G" but Oghur, Kipchak speakers uses "K" for pronouncing same words.

Btw i already knew that this word "Kazar, Gezer" is a common word between Hungarian, Turkic and all Slavic tongues. You can check these from google translate;

"gázol" in Hungarian
"gazya, gazi" in Bulgarian
"gaz, gaženje" in Croatian and Serbian.

All these words have similar meanings like "wandering, wade, step on, stomp, tread upon etc.

The word "Gezi" is an ancient word, exists in all Turkic tongues. We got lots of other words derived from it by adding suffixes, e.g. "Gez-egen" in Turkish, meaning "planet", because planets does tour around their orbit.

[Hayalet]

kürt;
"Wolf" maybe, Kurt in Turkic.

Doubt it. Kurt having the meaning of "wolf" is an Oghuz phenomenon. In other Turkic languages, the variants of börü are used.

[Onur]

Kurt having the meaning of "wolf" is an Oghuz phenomenon. In other Turkic languages, the variants of börü are used.

No, it`s not an Oghuz only word. Kurt exists in all modern Turkic languages, you can see from here;

http://www.tdk.org.tr/index.php?opti...&view=lehceler


It exists in 11th century Dîvânu Lugâti't-Türk too;

http://tdkterim.gov.tr/dlt/sozluk/?k...ng=ltn&ayn=bas


Kurt was also the name/title of an early Bulgar khan;

Unified under a single ruler, Kurt, or Kubrat (reigned c. 605–c. 642), the Bulgars constituted a powerful khanate known to the Byzantines as Great Bulgaria, with the Kuban River as its southern frontier. After Kurt’s death his five sons split the people into five hordes. One of these five, remaining on the coast of the Sea of Azov, was absorbed into the new empire of the Khazars; another migrated to central Europe and was merged with the Avars; and another disappeared into service under the Lombards in Italy. Two of the five hordes, however, had longer futures.

http://0-www.britannica.com.libra.na...chor=ref152204

This proves that this word existed in kypchak, oghur speech too.


"Börü" is an old word which exists on the Orkhon stones but this doesnt mean that "kurt" only exists among Oghuzs. Is there any kypchak Turkic speaker today who still uses that word today? I don't think so.

[Szegedist]

You better tell us first if these words have any meaning in Magyar speech, so we can make a comparison.

djarmat (gyarmat);
This is probably the word of "yarmak". I checked the online dictionary to be sure of all the meanings of it. It means, "cutting something to pieces". Also means "drawing a new border in a territory", So, cutting a piece from a land from it.

kesi (keszi);
This one sounds like Turkic but i am not sure. Is it something about "cutting" again? "Kes" means cut in Turkish. Kesi means incision

kürt;
"Wolf" maybe, Kurt in Turkic.

tarkánj (tarkány), tarján;
This might be "Tarkan, Tarhan, Tar-khan". Tarkans was the 2nd man in hierarchy after the great Khan.

őrsh (őrs);
This means "anvil" in Turkish. These words was quite popular among Turkic tribes because they were the masters in blacksmith.

sabar (szabar);
Sabar, Sabir is the name of a certain Turkic tribe. We have a territory named for them as Siberia in today`s Russia, meaning the land of Sabars.

sékej (székely);
I checked dictionary for this too. This might be "Saka", meaning "hillside" of a mountain. This might be a name of a particular land beside a mountain.



berénj (berény), eslár/oslár (eszlár/olszár), Kende/Kündü;
These sounds similar to Turkic but cant be sure.

jenő, njék (nyék), varshánj (varsány), káliz/kálaz, djula (Gyula), Horka
These doesn't sound like Turkic words.

gyarmat = colony
kér = to ask
kürt = horn
megyer = magyar,

Gyula was a title among Hungarians.

These Majgars are a type of the Turks. Their leader rides out with 20,000 warriors. This leader they call künde [kende]. This is the title of the greater of their kings. That leader who appoints the functionaries they call jula [gyula]. What the jula commands, the Majgars do.
—Gardizi

Horka was another title, I have also seen Horka being used interchangeably with karcha. Does that mean anything?



By the way Onur, you might find this interesting.
Stephen I (first King of Hungary)'s mother was Sarolt(Šar-oldu), another Turkic name.
Stephen/Istvan's original name was Vajk, which also comes from Turkic Bajik/Bajiq/Bayk meaning True Man.

[Szegedist]

Doubt it. Kurt having the meaning of "wolf" is an Oghuz phenomenon. In other Turkic languages, the variants of börü are used.

Hungarian word for the wolf was forgotten because it was not allowed to be said due to religious reasons. Today we call Wolves farkas (roughly meaning "tailed one"/"one with tail")

[Hayalet]

No, it`s not an Oghuz only word. Kurt exists in all modern Turkic languages, you can see from here;

Kurt exists in all Turkic languages, it just doesn't mean "wolf" in non-Oghuz ones, but something like "larva" (although this meaning remains in Oghuz as well).

English to Balkar:

wolf → böriu, börü

worm → k'urt, qurt

English to Chuvash:

wolf → kashkär, kašk'r, pirä

worm → 'wman, amän, xurt

English to Kazakh:

wolf → böri, qasqyr

worm → qurt

English to Kumyk:

wolf → böriu, börü

worm → xurt

English to Kyrgyz:

wolf → börü

worm → qurt

English to Tatar:

wolf → büre

worm → qort, suvalçan

English to Uzbek:

wolf → bori, qeršiqul, qešqir

worm → qurt

English to Uyghur:

wolf → böre, böri

worm → khurut, qurt, qurut

Hungarian word for the wolf was forgotten because it was not allowed to be said due to religious reasons.

The exact same thing goes for Oghuz Turks.

[Onur]

Hungarian word for the wolf was forgotten because it was not allowed to be said due to religious reasons. Today we call Wolves farkas (roughly meaning "tailed one"/"one with tail")

Kurt exists in all Turkic languages, it just doesn't mean "wolf" in non-Oghuz ones, but something like "larva" (although this meaning remains in Oghuz as well).

The exact same thing goes for Oghuz Turks.

And we were talking about the effects of christianity in Hungary and islam in Turkey in another thread few days ago! I remember that Szegedist was questioning the effects of islam in Turkish culture.


Btw Altay, we usually forgot the Oghuz people outside Turkey and Azerbaijan but as you know, Hungary once had Oghuz elements too, namely the Pechenegs/Patzinaks/Bacanaks, or as called as Besenyö in Hungary.