Your favourite Slavic nation apart for your own..

[Nationalitist]

But can you understand other Slovenians well? Are these differences small enough? So is Prekmurje mostly Catholic or Lutheran?

Prekmurje is mostly Catholic, like 70%+.

We understand other Slovenians because we learn Slovenian in schools, we hear it on TV etc. Other Slovenians don't understand us, or have difficulties. It is also true that Prekmurian language was "slovenized" in 20th century, so the differences are smaller now. Prekmurian Lutheran writter Kuzmič from 18th century tried to read some texts written by Carniolan Lutherans but he couldn't understand their language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prekmurian_dialect article on Wiki

They called the Masur dialects a different language, although they were nearly identical to the neighbouring Masovian dialects, just across the border. Today there is also small group of separatists in Silesia (perhaps 1% of the total population and very foten with some German ancestry) that want autonomy and regard Silesian as a different language

It seems to be their favourite strategy.. They (german chauvinists) are doing the same in Carinthia, where they promote some "wendish" identity distinct from Slovenian and some imaginary "wendish language", which indeed is only a dialect of Slovenian.

Do you actually have any stats? Do you know how many Slovenes live today in Austria and Italy? Wiki says its 25 000, and 83-183,000 respectively..

In Carinthia there were 75 000 Slovenians in 1900, but the number from 2001 was 17.500. Ad for Italy, I believe 83.000 is correct.

[Nationalitist]

It's just the sole notion of united Southern Slavs that I like. Obviously not at all costs... and at the expense of smaller nations - like Slovenians. I think that foreign forces played a siginificant role in first, dismantiling Yugoslavia, and second, weakening Serbia by detaching Montenegro and Kosovo

What I would like to see is some cooperation between different southern Slavic nations, but not a union as such. I understand that we're small nation and we can hardly survive on our own.

[Nationalitist]

That was very similar during Silesian and Masurian plebiscites. In East Prussia, German paramilitaries terrorised the countryside and Polish-speaking Masurians, harassed those who bought Polish newspapers and devastated Polish schools and offices. They killed several Polish activists or even local Masurians who engaged in pro-Polish agitation. They even erected monuments in villages that voted wholly for Germany.

In Silesia, it was similar. They also shipped in 100 of 1000s Germans from mainland Germany, but who were born in Silesia to vote in favour of Germany. However, the Silesians, unlike Masurians, were Catholic and had a strong pro-Polish sentiment. They organised themselves and rose up against Germans enforcing a fait accompli upon the Entente Powers

What was the result in Masuria?

In Carinthia it was slight Austrian victory (55% or so)

[Nationalitist]

I see with Serbs and Slovenes, its a bit like with Poles and Russians. We are fighint on the same side, yet the Russians commited atrocities in Poland too, and were not overly pro-Polish. However, that's good you still have a sound judgement and are not prejudiced.

Well yes.. In Yugoslavia ww2 was a complex issue though. Many Slovenians fought with Partisans from other Yugo nations, I don't see a problem with that, but unfortunately partisan resistance was run by Communists...

[Jarl]

Thanks for the map!

Interesting. I guess this was the case of all Slavic Protestants. I would be interested to hear more about Protestantism in Poland..

Anyway, here in Slovenia reformation day is celebrated as a national holiday. Ex-Communist political elite in Slovenia is probably responsible for that, to make mockery out of the Church. Slovenian Protestants in 16th century wrote few books, including first Slovenian book ever written and thus some people consider this as some "birth of Slovenian nation" and are overplaying their importance. Those protestants were from Carniola region, not from Prekmurje, which was under Hungary had no connection to rest of Slovenia. Protestants from Carniola were later persecuted by Habsburgs and today the only remaining Lutherans are from Prekmurje.

Protestantism has never been a significant force among Polish commoners. In fact, it was completely mariginal. There was however a very strong pro-Protestand movement in XVIth century during Renaissance and the reign of the last Jagiellonians. Roughly half of the Polish nobles converted to Kalvinism. Some formed a separate Church of "Polish Brothers" (something like the Husites). There was even a political current which opted for creation of a national Church of Poland, after the union with Lithuania in 1569.

The final years of Zygmunt August reign, brought a change. The king dropped the plans for a national Church. Jesuits and other Catholic orders were invited to Poland and steadily counter-reformation begun. Within the next 200 years it completely eradicated Protestantism. Particularly in XVII century, during the reign of arch-Catholic kings of the Vasa dynasty, and the Swedish deluge, people converted to Catholicism en masse.

Protestants in Poland are now mostly Lutherans. They are restricted to major cities which used to have German minorites. There are still several thousand Protestant Masurians living in the North.

Yes, only Catholic Slavs. Hungarian Catholics weren't targeted, Hungarian Catholic nobility supported Hungary, as did the Church in Hungary. Also the Church was infiltrated with liberal ideas. Slovenian Catholics often accused Hungarian priests that they cared more about Hungary than Catholicism.

So where this Hungarian pro-Protestantism came from, if the country (and nobility) was predominantly Catholic (or was it?) ?

Prekmurje is mostly Catholic, like 70%+..

We understand other Slovenians because we learn Slovenian in schools, we hear it on TV etc. Other Slovenians don't understand us, or have difficulties. It is also true that Prekmurian language was "slovenized" in 20th century, so the differences are smaller now. Prekmurian Lutheran writter Kuzmič from 18th century tried to read some texts written by Carniolan Lutherans but he couldn't understand their language.

Right. So its quite a distinct dialect. Something like Kashubian in Poland.

[Ariets]

Croatians, I had allways some positive feelings towards them

[Jarl]

What was the result in Masuria? In Carinthia it was slight Austrian victory (55% or so)

It was a disaster, unlike in Silesia. A complete disaster. Only several border villages were ceded to Poland. A tiny tiny fraction of the whole disputed area. Masurians never really underwent a national awakening. By 1920, most Masurians considered themselves "Prussian" or German and almost all opted for Germany.

No replies? FUCK YOU

I think, I don't like Prekmurjans anymore!

[Nationalitist]

lol

i will reply to your posts asap

[Nationalitist]

So where this Hungarian pro-Protestantism came from, if the country (and nobility) was predominantly Catholic (or was it?) ?

During 19th and early 20th century Magyarization liberalism was strong in Hungary, as I said Kossuth and his followers were fierce liberals. Protestants supported liberalism and thus Hungary favoured Protestantism. Catholic feudals didn't bother much since most of them were only interested in their financial well being and this wasn't in danger, of course there were exceptions. Hungarian Church didn't really want to undermine the power of state, they were financialy secured too. Anyway, I believe that it's simmilar to what you had in Silesia - Germany had large Catholic population as well, yet in your lands it was more in favour of Protestantism.

Masurians never really underwent a national awakening. By 1920, most Masurians considered themselves "Prussian" or German and almost all opted for Germany.

Here national awakening was originaly infiltrated by masonry and liberalism, that's why it failed in 1848. It had strong support in Carniola. In the 2nd half of 19th century patriots from Styria developed a more 'agrarian' type of nationalism.. Nationalist meetings called "tabori" were set up all over Slovenia, the goal was to spread nationalist ideas on the countryside (liberal nationalism on the other hand was more attractive to students and some petit-bourgeois). I believe Czechs had something simmilar, I don't know if you had this in Poland?

Prekmurje wasn't part of all this though, as there wasn't much contact with rest of Slovenia.. In Prekmurje we had no "tabori" but there was no liberal infiltration either. Local clergy was leading nationalist fight and they hated liberalism. For example, one of most important nationalists, Dr. Franc Ivanocy (Ivanovski) said that there is no greater evil than liberal priest.

[Jarl]

Do you think Italian Slovenes are less likely to assimilate, than Austrian ones?

It seems to be their favourite strategy.. They (german chauvinists) are doing the same in Carinthia, where they promote some "wendish" identity distinct from Slovenian and some imaginary "wendish language", which indeed is only a dialect of Slovenian.

They also did this during WWII - they tried to convert the Pomeranian Kashubs by creating a whole new nation "Kashubenvolk". Unfortunately about 1% responded positively and the whole action was abandoned.

Also another action - this time in the Tatras was meant to convert Highlanders from Podhale. They were given the option to join the new nation - "Goralenvolk" (apparently slavicised Germanics according to Himmler). Gorals were nonetheless too conservative and vast majority declined too.

Prekmurje wasn't part of all this though, as there wasn't much contact with rest of Slovenia.. In Prekmurje we had no "tabori" but there was no liberal infiltration either. Local clergy was leading nationalist fight and they hated liberalism. For example, one of most important nationalists, Dr. Franc Ivanocy (Ivanovski) said that there is no greater evil than liberal priest.

Local clergy was mostly Catholic? Is Prekmurje the strongest holdout of Protestantism in Hungary?