How Celtic Are You?

[Ibericus]

The Lusitanians were Proto-Celts and spoke an IE language. The debate is centered on wether or not the Lusitanian language was Celtic (it shows many Celtic influences). Currently it is loosely codified as Para-Celtic. The Lusitanian culture was, without doubt, Celtic and very similar to the Gallaecians and Astures.

Correct. When Diodorus describes human sacrifices carried out by druids in Gaul, he outlines a similar procedure to that described by Strabo among the Lusitanians. Culturally the Lusitanians were celtic or celtized, but the language is another debate. It is tought an archaic form of Celtic.

[Osweo]

Culturally the Lusitanians were celtic or celtized, but the language is another debate. It is thought to be an archaic form of Celtic.

I see no reason to bundle Lusitanian with Celtic in linguistic terms. It seems more of an isolated IE branch of its own. See:

3) Lusit. taurom (acc. sg.) < IE. *tau¾ros ‘bull’ (cf. Lat. taurus, Gk. taûroj ‘bull’, Lith. tau~ras ‘bison’, Pol. tur ‘Auerochs’) vs. Gaul. taruos, MIr. tarb, W. tarw, Corn. tarow, Bret. taro ‘bull’. All the Celtic languages show the common metathesis -u¾r- > -ru¾-, but Lusitanian does not follow the same development.

4) Lusit. oilam acc. sg. (from *owi-laº-m) < IE. *óu¾is ‘sheep’ (cf. Lat. ouis, Skt. ávih, Gk. ¾ïj) vs. OIr. oi ‘ewe’, Gaulish PN Ovio-rix (from CC. *owis) and W. ewig ‘doe’, OCorn. euhig gl. cerva (from Brittonic *ou¾ikaº). Although the reconstructed archetype *ou¾ilaº-m, proposed by Tovar (1966-67, p. 244; 1985, p. 234) is convincing from the phonological point of view, there are no attested parallels for such a derivation from IE. *óu¾is ‘sheep’ in Celtic or any other Indo-European languages. Therefore I agree with K. H. Schmidt’s opinion (1985, p. 336) that «the Celtic character of Lusitanian oilam cannot be regarded as proven».

- ON THE INDO-EUROPEAN ORIGIN OF TWO LUSITANIAN THEONYMS
(LAEBO AND REVE)1
KRZYSZTOF TOMASZWITCZAK
£ódz

It is not open to doubt that there was an immense cultural impact felt by the Lusitani from the Celts. Language divided them, but they were often in convergence in all other spheres.

[Anthropologique]

I see no reason to bundle Lusitanian with Celtic in linguistic terms. It seems more of an isolated IE branch of its own. See:



It is not open to doubt that there was an immense cultural impact felt by the Lusitani from the Celts. Language divided them, but they were often in convergence in all other spheres.

It is well known that Gallaic, (Gallaecian Celtic - Galicia, N. Portugal) had a Lusitanian substratum (see Wodtko, 2010).

[Albion]

Galicia is about as Celtic in culture as England or Belgium - negligable. But the genetics are still there in all three of course, but genetics only.

[Anthropologique]

Galicia is about as Celtic in culture as England or Belgium - negligable. But the genetics are still there in all three of course, but genetics only.

Have you per chance read Raimund Karl's paper in Celtic from the West? He has some interesting perspectives with respect to the notion of Celticity.

Raimund Karl, The Celts From Everywhere and Nowhere: A Re-evaluation of the Origins of the Celts and the Emergence of Celtic Cultures , in Celtic from the West: Alternative Perspectives from Archaeology, Genetics, Language and Literature. eds, Barry Cunliffe and J. Koch. Oxford, 2010, Oxbow Books.

[Damião de Góis]

Correct. When Diodorus describes human sacrifices carried out by druids in Gaul, he outlines a similar procedure to that described by Strabo among the Lusitanians. Culturally the Lusitanians were celtic or celtized, but the language is another debate. It is tought an archaic form of Celtic.

No one knows for sure if they were Celts or Iberians. They lived surrounded by Celts or Celticized people, so it's normal that they were influenced by them.



According to a History of Portugal book i have, they did some things the Celtic way: they burned their dead, were skilled with iron, and their Gods, people, and places all had names which suggest a Celtic origin. On the other hand, they left the Meseta because of the Celts and they used a round shield and did war in a way characteristic of Iberians.

[Anthropologique]

The Lusitanians were an Indo-European tribe who spoke an IE language that was a likely a form of Proto-Celtic. They are thought to have migrated from the Alps along with the Lussons. I have not seen any evidence that they were related to Iberians, a non-IE people.

[Albion]

Have you per chance read Raimund Karl's paper in Celtic from the West? He has some interesting perspectives with respect to the notion of Celticity.

Raimund Karl, The Celts From Everywhere and Nowhere: A Re-evaluation of the Origins of the Celts and the Emergence of Celtic Cultures , in Celtic from the West: Alternative Perspectives from Archaeology, Genetics, Language and Literature. eds, Barry Cunliffe and J. Koch. Oxford, 2010, Oxbow Books.

Yes.

[Treffie]

Have you per chance read Raimund Karl's paper in Celtic from the West? He has some interesting perspectives with respect to the notion of Celticity.

Raimund Karl, The Celts From Everywhere and Nowhere: A Re-evaluation of the Origins of the Celts and the Emergence of Celtic Cultures , in Celtic from the West: Alternative Perspectives from Archaeology, Genetics, Language and Literature. eds, Barry Cunliffe and J. Koch. Oxford, 2010, Oxbow Books.

J.T. Koch has also theorised that the Celts originated from Iberia, and that the Tartessians were the original Celts. However, it doesn't mean that these places are Celtic now.

[Anthropologique]

J.T. Koch has also theorised that the Celts originated from Iberia, and that the Tartessians were the original Celts. However, it doesn't mean that these places are Celtic now.

One can argue that no nation is fully Celtic now, since the large majority of the natives in ancient Celtic lands do not, as a matter of course, practice Celtic culture or speak Celtic languages. However, many of the regions along the Atlantic Facade do have a Celtic identity. These people tend to identify as Celtic for very valid historical and, to a lesser extent, socio-cultural reasons.