Trianon: why Hungarians hate Romanians, and vice versa

[Philo]

This is going to be a good thread. Should get some popcorn to see Dacul and Szeg fighting. Also try to educate myself on Trianon because I don't really know anything about it.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

I see Romanians in you tube constantly trolling Hungarians calling them names like Bozgor or other ..must be really annoying

urban dictionary:

The word "bozgor" is used on group of Romanians (Romanian nationality) in Transylvania.

Enormous number of Romanians (from Moldova and South-Romania) were moved unwillingly to Transylvania during the communist regime to change the ethnic composition of the population. Having no roots in this country, these people are called "bozgor" - meaning: without country.

The other meaning is used by the Romanians (Vlach) as a response. The native Hungarians are often called "bozgor".

Both meanings are extremely racist and used only by the lower class with lack of education.

[Baluarte]

It has nothing to do with either Hungary or Rumania. Instead think of Transylvania as a separate country. After WW1 Transylvania was annexed to Rumania. This has nothing to do with Hungary it is an issue between Transylvania and the rest of the Rumanian state.

It was a broadly authonomous region, but the political ties with Hungary were always quite strong and it was considered integral part of the Hungarian kingdom.

Demographic was always favourable to the Romanians, except Székely Land.

Map of 1815



Austro Hungarian Empire 1911:



2002:




The thing is, before the XIXth Century multinational States were not a problem for anyone. Nationalism is a product of the French Revolution (which is why it was always associated with the political left during the XIXth Century) and only became a "right-wing" element after the first national-catholic and fascist authors made peace with it in the early XXth Century.

That's why the 1848 revolutions where anti-monarchist, while XXth century Nationalism have never had a problem with autocracy.

[Dacul]

Mary is clueless Swede,which wants to enrage Hungarians against Romanians.
Most people of Transylvania wanted to join Romania (including most Hungarians,not only Romanians,cause they were peasants).
Because they knew an agrarian reform would be made and they will receive land,which actually happened.

[Szegedist]

Actually Hungarian tribes started to conquer more territories around 10th Century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelou_%28duke%29
As you can see,Transylvania was inhabited and ruled by Romanians,before Hungarians conquered it.
They also tried to conquer Wallachia,but they could not manage.

Gelou fairy tales, the love of all Romanian chauvinists.

A number of authors who dispute the credibility[7] of the Gesta claim that the author probably had no information (apart from some familial and tribal legends) regarding the actual circumstances of the conquest.[3][17] According to them, he invented enemies and rivals for his heroes to vanquish and casually borrowed the names of rivers (Laborc), mountains (Tarcal and Zobor), settlements (Galád), and castles (Gyalu) to conjure up knights and chieftains (e.g., the Bulgarian Laborcy, the Cuman Turzol, the Czech Zobur, and the Vlach Gelou) who are not mentioned in other primary sources.[3][17][18] They also claim that Anonymus had no knowledge of the settlers' real enemies (e.g., Svatopluk II, Emperor Arnulf I, the Bulgar Tzar Simeon); of the settlers' actual adversaries, which included the Moravians, Slovenes, Karantans, Franks, and Bavarians, and that he knew only of the Bulgarians.[3][17] Thus he arbitrarily counted among the Hungarians' opponents the Czechs, who at the time lived exclusively in the Czech Basin; the Cumanians, who moved to Europe only in the 11th century; and the Vlachs which, according to these authors, suggest that his choices reflect the ethnic and political realities of the 12th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesta_H...uments_against

No proof has been found your "Gelou" ever existed, your Romanian "historians" have been searching, searching, and searching for him for eterninty, and found no traces. Its not like with Dacian theory, where you can just rearange some stones and call it ancient Daco-Romanian fortress, you need more than this

[Szegedist]

Mary is clueless Swede,which wants to enrage Hungarians against Romanians.
Most people of Transylvania wanted to join Romania (including most Hungarians,not only Romanians,cause they were peasants).
Because they knew an agrarian reform would be made and they will receive land,which actually happened.

Bull...shit, please stop writing your idiotic propaganda. You are famous on this forum to make things up as you go along, and this is one of those many times.

[Szegedist]

I see Romanians in you tube constantly trolling Hungarians calling them names like Bozgor or other ..must be really annoying

Bozgor started out as a Hungarian insult for Romanians, but they are soo clever so they copied it and started using it against us.

[Szegedist]

It has nothing to do with either Hungary or Rumania. Instead think of Transylvania as a separate country. After WW1 Transylvania was annexed to Rumania. This has nothing to do with Hungary it is an issue between Transylvania and the rest of the Rumanian state.

Until 1526, Transylvania was part of Hungary. Then Hungary (due to pro-Habsburg vs anti-Habsburg, and the Ottoman wars) was separated into 3 parts.
Transylvania was called the Eastern Hungarian Kingdom, then became principality of Transylvania, and was eventually united back with Hungary.

Transylvania has more to do with Hungarians than Romanians, most of the cities, castles, heritage sites, even ancient universities, toponyms have nothing to do with Romania.

Romanians are the Bantus of Transylvania.

[Szegedist]

Balurate, such maps do not show reality, because a lot of those areas were in fact not populated by anybody (due to mountains, etc).

Also read this
http://www.magyarnews.org/photos/MNO_jun_12.pdf

excerpt:

"As I stepped into the hall at the appointed hour, I once again felt very
strongly the uniqueness of the situation.
I was to speak to an audience among
whom there was not the smallest fraction of sympathizing elements, an audience of enemies in the technical sense
of the word, mostly hostile with a small
sprinkling of indifferent participants…
The arrangement of the hall robbed me
of the possibility of looking into the
face of that part of the audience among
whom I presumed a less hostile bias,
the British, the Italians and the Japanese; I stood face to face with only
Clemenceau and his staff, and this portion of the audience could not, or would
not, disguise their unfriendly attitude at
the beginning of my presentation. I had
before me some serious, malevolent
faces, other mocking smiling ones, I
could not doubt with what sort of prejudice my words would be received…
I began without any introduction, with
the declaration that the peace terms
were totally unacceptable for us and
that I would prove this on the major
provisions. I noted immediately that
this dry tone, avoiding all sentimentality, surprised at least that part of my
listeners whose impression I could observe, and worked favorably on their
disposition…
A large portion of my exposition was
devoted to establishing how totally mistaken the territorial provisions of the
Trianon Treaty were from the ethnographic point of view; that the provisions in this regard were a punch in the
face of the nationality principle, which
served as its pretense…
Clemenceau gave (British Prime Minister David) Lloyd George the floor, and
he called on me to go into greater detail
about the distribution of the nationalities which I had mentioned in the
course of my talk, specifically, of the
Magyars in the territories detached
from Hungary… Fortunately, I was
prepared for such questions; I had Paul
Teleki’s excellent ethnographic map of
Hungary with me, and with this, went
to Lloyd George’s seat, where all the
main representatives hurried, and listened to my explanation with their
heads together over the map…
I heard that, at the end of this session,
some rather sharp statements were
made by the British, who were brought
into the unpleasant situation of being
participants in such constructional mistakes. (Italian Prime Minister Orlando)
Nitti even made a serious attempt to
bring about a change of the most absurd
provisions; but he too had to give way
to the argument that the whole house of
cards of the peace treaties would collapse if any change were to be allowed…"

[Szegedist]

I really couldn't care any less on what they score in genetic tests.
Finno-Ugrian languages are not Indo-European but other than the academic and cultural curiosity, I really don't see the importance, it is what it is.

Again, what is the relevance to the political context?

It has no relevance whatsoeever, it is just typical dribbles from an angry Vlach.