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Thread: Buddhist Origins

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    Default Buddhist Origins

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutiferre View Post
    Which, to the extent that it is true (and it is to an extent true), only proves the fundamental contention of Indo-European cultural and cultic studies in that those religions are fundamentally speaking myths and beliefs that have travelled, foreign importations in syncresis, but far from "native" products.
    The thread caught my eye last night, its as if the author is claiming that Odin and Thor are uniquely for the Scandinavian people. How far these Gods are shared is they believe that Buddha is derived from the Celtic God Cernunnos who in reality the Celts adopted from the earlier Paleolithic inhabitants of West Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Foley View Post
    The thread caught my eye last night, its as if the author is claiming that Odin and Thor are uniquely for the Scandinavian people. How far these Gods are shared is they believe that Buddha is derived from the Celtic God Cernunnos who in reality the Celts adopted from the earlier Paleolithic inhabitants of West Europe.
    Here is the Cernunnos from the Gundestrup Cauldron in Denmark, a left-behind of the Celto-Germanic Cimbri tribe that inhabited Denmark at the time.

    You can see how it's almost a sitting Buddha.

    But the more likely explanation is that Celtic mythology has eastern influences/loans/origins.
    A man who fights for a cause thereby affirms the cause of the fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutiferre View Post
    But the more likely explanation is that Celtic mythology has eastern influences/loans/origins.
    You're barking up the wrong tree with Buddha, IMO. Aside from the fact that Siddhartha Gautama was almost undoubtedly an historical person (much like Jeebus), mythographers are pretty sure that Cernunnos as the Vedic God Pashupati (and thus his antecedent Shiva) sprang from the same Proto-Indo-European source:

    Pashupati



    Shiva



    Similarly, the English Herne the Hunter and the Scandinavian Freyr most likely came from either the original PIE source, or branched off from the Celtic.
    Last edited by Psychonaut; 09-04-2009 at 08:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    You're barking up the wrong tree with Buddha, IMO. Aside from the fact that Siddhartha Gautoma was almost undoubtedly an historical person (much like Jeebus), mythographers are pretty sure that Cernunnos as the Vedic God Pashupati (and thus his antecedent Shiva) sprang from the same Proto-Indo-European source:
    I don't deny the historicity. But yeah, what you say is consistent with what I said. The proto-Indo-European source is widely believed to be Eastern, relative to the Celts in Europe anyway and western relative to the Far East.
    A man who fights for a cause thereby affirms the cause of the fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutiferre View Post
    But the more likely explanation is that Celtic mythology has eastern influences/loans/origins.
    I dont agree Cernunnos predates Buddhism and with the discovery in the Tarim Basin of the European Mummies it is now being gradually established that mythology/religious ideas moved from West to East. A good example of this proof is the swastika which first appeared in Europe, Maes Howe has the oldest swastika depiction I think, the swastika was then carried into Asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Foley View Post
    I dont agree Cernunnos predates Buddhism
    Actually, that is perfectly consistent with what I said. With East, I didn't mean the Far East. That one predates the other, nevertheless, doesn't change the common source in what is Eastern relative to where Celtic speakers reside.
    A man who fights for a cause thereby affirms the cause of the fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Foley View Post
    I dont agree Cernunnos predates Buddhism
    Are you serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    Siddhārtha Gautama (Sanskrit: सिद्धार्थ गौतम; Pali: Siddhattha Gotama) was a spiritual teacher in the north eastern region of the Indian subcontinent who founded Buddhism.[1] He is generally seen by Buddhists as the Supreme Buddha (Sammāsambuddha) of our age. The time of his birth and death are uncertain: most early 20th-century historians dated his lifetime as c. 563 BCE to 483 BCE; more recently, however, at a specialist symposium on this question,[2] the majority of those scholars who presented definite opinions gave dates within 20 years either side of 400 BCE for the Buddha's death, with others supporting earlier or later dates.
    Depictions of Horned Meditative deities date all the way back to the Indus Valley Civilization (c. 2600–1900 BCE).

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    besides you are all wrong

    While buddhism was founded around 500 bc, it was a very small and marginal cult among hundreds just like it.
    It wasnt until the greeks arrived in india, and wholly new buddhist art began appearing... with a clear hellenic influence, along with hellenic humanist values (what is good in life? )... that this new buddhism took flight.

    Notice how its based upon philosophy.. in an era when the term and concept was kinda unknown elsewhere, rather than ritual as religions in India. India certainly had fabulists... but not quite philosophers..
    Middle path etc, things that was the very latest in greek thinking.


    Intrestingly enough those very same thoughts continued in the hellenic world, especially alexandria still around 300 AD, where and when a certain other religion was vbeing created golden rules, moderation etc... hahah
    Last edited by ikki; 09-04-2009 at 08:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutiferre View Post
    Actually, that is perfectly consistent with what I said. With East, I didn't mean the Far East. That one predates the other, nevertheless, doesn't change the common source in what is Eastern relative to where Celtic speakers reside.
    Thats fine makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    Are you serious?
    Cernunnos goes back before 563 BCE
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    Depictions of Horned Meditative deities date all the way back to the Indus Valley Civilization (c. 2600–1900 BCE).
    The horned Gods of Greco-Paganism such as Pan, Faunus and Hecate predate or match that Indus valley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Foley View Post
    Cernunnos goes back before 563 BCE
    The horned Gods of Greco-Paganism such as Pan, Faunus and Hecate predate or match that Indus valley.
    That's exactly what I'm saying. You said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Foley
    I dont agree Cernunnos predates Buddhism
    I suppose you were meaning to say, "I don't agree. Cernunnos predates Buddhism." However, I took it to mean, "I don't agree that Cernunnos predates Buddhism." A wonderful example of the importance of good grammar!

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