What does it mean to be Celt?

**Ibericus** · 07-13-2010, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Pallantides

They might be Germanic speakers now, but some of these Central European R-U160 carriers were at one point Celtic also, haplogroups are not restricted to linguistic or cultural groups.

Before they splitted they were Indo-europeans speaking an Italo-Celto-Germanic language and were probably R1b-P310 or earlier

**Curtis24** · 07-13-2010, 03:36 PM

The proof of the Nordicism of the original Celts is born out by the anthropological record, as I've been pointing out. The skulls found at La Tene as well as Celtic hilltop-fortress settlements in Britain and Ireland all have a similar-shaped skull. This skull shape was predominately Nordic, with a small amount of admixture with Dinaric. I have to walk out the door right now, but I'll elaborate later.

**Ibericus** · 07-13-2010, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Curtis24

The proof of the Nordicism of the original Celts is born out by the anthropological record, as I've been pointing out.
The skulls found at La Tene as well as Celtic hilltop-fortress settlements in Britain and Ireland all have a similar-shaped skull. This skull shape was predominately Nordic, with a small amount of admixture with Dinaric. I have to walk out the door right now, but I'll elaborate later.

I want sources please, enough of this pseudo-science bullshit.

Dinaric my ass. This is not science. Who made all this old-fashioned interpretation ? I doubt serious scientists would use such taxonomy. Sorry but this is not StormFart . What skulls are you talking about ? Because the Celtic Lindow Man was certainly not nordic if you see his facial reconstrucion.
What is sure, is that nordic people have over 20% of hg I1, while in Ireland it is not even 7% and most of it came via the English and the Vikings. So, no , until science and genetics prove otherwise, the Celts were not Nordic.

**Pallantides** · 07-13-2010, 04:10 PM

What is a "Nordic" skullshape anyway?

I remember they excavated a Norwegian viking tomb not long ago and they found skulls of all shapes and sizes.

**Curtis24** · 07-13-2010, 08:41 PM

"The Races of Man" by Carleton Coon. Say what you want about white supremacism, I am not a white supremacist, but the fact is you can tell physical appearance and 'race' by skull shape. The skulls of the Celts(as determined by skulls found at La Tene as well Celtic settlements in Britain, Ireland, and other places the Celts settled) looked Nordic, as much(but not all) of the population of the British Isles still have similarly shaped skulls. There was some amount of regionalism in each different area, but not enough to change the basic shape of the skull.
.

I am curious though to see the reconstructed Celtic skull. Could you post a link?

**Ibericus** · 07-13-2010, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Curtis24

"The Races of Man" by Carleton Coon. Say what you want about white supremacism, I am not a white supremacist, but the fact is you can tell physical appearance and 'race' by skull shape. The skulls of the Celts looked like people from Scandinavia and North Germany, as much(but not all) of the population of the British Isles still have similarly shaped skulls.

As for the genetics, it is still a growing field. Oppenheimer/Bryan Sykes showed that when they both rushed to publish books that have both now been disproven due to new advances in genetics. Physical Anthropology is more accurate than genetics IMO.

I am curious though to see the reconstructed Celtic skull. Could you post a link?

LOL, you talk about Coon, a pseudo-scientist from the mid 50's ? Is that what you call accurate ? Can we see his studies on the subject ? What skulls are you talking about ? Plus, when I was talking about genetics, I was not talking about Oppenheimer/Sykes, I was talking about empirical facts such that Nordic people have more than 20 % of Hg I1 (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, etc) you can see it from any source, whereas celtic counries like Ireland don't have more than 7% of I1 , Wales has 6% of I1, and It has more to do with the english settlements. So, no, there is no evidence that Celts were Nordic. Quite the contrary. As for the Celtic man of Lindow (england) here is his facial reconstruction :

**Curtis24** · 07-13-2010, 09:02 PM

Coon wasn't a "pseudo-scientist". He documented everything he wrote about, and his ideas were based on real measurements and data. If you want to dispute his data, give real arguments.

The Celts were a subtype of Nordics. They were somewhat different from Scandinavians and Germans and didn't look exactly alike, due to racial admixture in central Europe, but were still basically Nordic, meaning they had a defined skull shape.

**Ibericus** · 07-13-2010, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Curtis24

Coon wasn't a "pseudo-scientist". He documented everything he wrote about, and his ideas were based on real measurements and data. If you want to dispute his data, give real arguments.

But you are talking about old-fashioned racist and nordicist science right ? From the mid 50's ? Or even 30's ?? By the way, I've asked you to show us his works on the subject.

The Celts were a subtype of Nordics. They were somewhat different from Scandinavians and Germans and didn't look exactly alike, due to racial admixture in central Europe, but were still basically Nordic, meaning they had a defined skull shape.

What racial admixture are you talking about ? What skulls are you talking about?

Crazy.

**Pallantides** · 07-13-2010, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Iberia

Quite the contrary. As for the Celtic man of Lindow (england) here is his facial reconstruction :

A bit paler skin and that guy could be west coast Norwegian.
I have known many people from Sogn og Fjordane and Møre og Romsdal with similar apperance as this guy.

**~~Osweo~~** · 07-13-2010, 10:16 PM

TIresome debate... Curtis is too clumsy, and Iberia too fanatical. Hopeless...

Coon was doing his best at the time. He had no mad agendas. He described a Keltic nordid racial type, and theorised that Celtic speech was brought to Britain by its representatives. Of course, these incomers didn't kill everyone already here, and other types of Briton survived and Celticised. And you get fellers like the Lindow Man. And ME!