Was 9/11 a Cover Up?

[Cato]

But it's not! The evil deed was not what happened those couple of hours, the morning of 9/11. Yes that was a tragedy, but the real evil is still happening in the name of 9/11. When people like myself and Veritas get worked up, it's not merely so that those 2996 or whatever people can have some justice, it's moreso to expose and identify the group of people who are have pulled the wool over the eyes of the world. It's part of a bigger picture. 9/11 just happens to be the greatest insight that this generation has been offered to the bigger picture and as such it's our flagship event, so to speak.

You treat this as you would some killer who murdered a child and then immediately killed himself. A great injustice yes, but In such a case, it would be okay to relinquish all frustration to the pages of history. There's nothing anyone can do and the evil is over and done. But what if that killer hadn't killed himself but had framed someone else? What if that killer went on to murder dozens of people in your community? Would you still want to forget the original incident, or would you want to re-analyse it to see if you could bring a killer-at-large to justice? See, the evil of 9/11 is not over and done.


Exactly! And this is the primary reason that people still care about 9/11 - because it's the strongest evidence we have to bring the evildoers to justice. It's not 9/11 itself, it's what it represents.

I think the bottom line is that you find the official story regarding 9/11 to be likely, and I think that if you were sceptical of it you'd have cause to still care.

But each to their own. At least you're honest.

The event itself and the aftermath of the event are two entirely different things. Dismissing the former as a done deal is not dismissing the pursuit of justice for those responsible for it- whomever they may be. Did I ever seem to imply that I wasn't interested in justice? Then there's the finger-pointing, name-calling, etc. Assuming that someone who simply says that 9/11 is a done deal and a historical event is traitorous or a subverter of the truth, or because that person doesn't buy into either side of the story (the official version that says idiot Muslims did 9/11 or the unofficial version that says that the Illuminati/Jews/NWO/ZOG did 9/11), is pretty simple-minded.

Bigger pictures.. Such as? In the day of the internet, everyone with a computer and an opinion can paint a picture of some gloomy dystopic future. Who does a person believe? The fellows over at Infowars or AboveTopSecret? The media spindoctors? Or, better yet for me, I trust my own intuition when it tells me: Yes something awful happened, it is over and done with, I couldn't have done anything about it and, no, I'm not going to turn it into my life's obsession to uncover the truth. Things happen as the Gods will- no amount of anger or blaming others or becoming enraged at the establishment can change that fact.

9/11 is a crime, crimes ought to be punished. Those responsible ought to be found out and punished appropriately- or perhaps more harshly so as to send a clear message to such people in the future. Who's to say. I, for one, feel that proper punishment has been meted out and the world now sees Islam for the ugly religion that it is. But, more deaths have resulted, which merely creates an example that violence creates violence. If it [the world's wake-up call] continues as it has, Islam, which I regard as the culprit of 9/11, will be outed more and more. If, as some say, the 9/11 events were premeditated by a political cabal, what use is it to get all disturbed? In this case, clearly the plot to defraud the American people and wreck out Constitutional freedoms was begun well before the actual fact and is merely another part to establish the new world order. Some reports indicate that this devlish plot to create an evil, satanic global government began during the reign of king Solomon! Or somesuch, but people paint these idiot politicians as if they're Dark Lords of the Sith who could teach Machiavelli a few lessons.

[Loddfafner]

I am aware of false flag operations and realize that they are a common method of warfare. I do not think that 9/11 is an example of one although the American government did take advantage of it to launch the Iraq war. The same administration also took advantage of it to grant prosecutors and intelligent services just about everything they wanted in their longstanding wish lists while Democrats were too fearful of seeming soft on terror to play their normal role in standing up for the integrity of legal procedures.

While I am categorically skeptical about anything that follows the pattern of conspiracy theories, and see the obsessiveness of their enthusiasts as more indicative of their state of mind than of the probability they are right, I am especially skeptical of the 9/11 arguments.

At the time of the attack, I was in contact with someone who was in the Pentagon. He sent me the photographs which included unambiguous airplane bits. Since assertions that it was not an airplane are such a prominent theme of the conspiracists, I tend towards skepticism about everything else they come up with. I also knew a close friend of one of the guys who heroically fought the hijackers and downed the flight in PA and know he was capable of what has been attributed to him.

I used to follow Islamic politics well enough to be reasonably confident that that the Oklahoma bombing was not them but that the trade center bombings were. My impressions do not count as evidence but do show where I am coming from here and also my longstanding independence from what the media tells me.

I look at major events as analogous to the crests of waves. They are more visible to observers than the waves themselves but it is the underlying movement of water that drives the crests, not vice versa. I do not agree with the so-called butterfly effect where some trivial detail can transform the big picture.

In the case of 9/11, I look for long term trends coming to a head. Large organizations both public and private tend to cut corners leading to overall deterioration and hollowness. There you get lax airport security as the officials involved just go through the motions. In bureaucratic organizations, individuals get less and less leeway to express their own judgment and apply common sense. The way policies are implemented, bureaucrats' incentives are to stick to their immediate job description. This accounts for the stunning obliviousness of the FBI to alQaida's preparations. Meanwhile the decay of governance in outlying areas such as Afghanistan gave room for AlQaida to plan such an attack.

These trends are not by themselves a sufficient explanation but they are better examples of where to look for explanations than the demonology of traditional populism.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, there was a futile search for a bogeyman to use to rile up gullible voters. Politicians tried China for a while and a few other candidates. The 9/11 attack was vivid enough for them to find it. It was convenient, but that convenience is not evidence for a well-planned project to create that event.

G.W. Bush lacked the basic wisdom and knowledge a leader needs and this left the lower levels unchecked. Initially, they erred on the side of complacency in ignoring Clinton's parting advice about the magnitude of alQaida as a threat. After the attack, they erred on the side of overreaction and overreach. Like an earthquake expresses the movement of fault lines, the events of 9/11 expressed the movement of the decades-long tendency of the emergence of a surveillance state.

[Sol Invictus]

The event itself and the aftermath of the event are two entirely different things.

No, they are directly linked, and you have been conditioned to accept, by the modern propaganda machine, and even outright deny the tyrannical consequences have resulted from the event and the aftermath itself.

Dismissing the former as a done deal is not dismissing the pursuit of justice for those responsible for it- whomever they may be.

Did I ever seem to imply that I wasn't interested in justice?

, for one, feel that proper punishment has been meted out and the world now sees Islam for the ugly religion that it is.

Islam, which I regard as the culprit of 9/11, will be outed more and more.

I don't think I need to point out the contradictions which riddle 90 per cent of all this drivel.

We in the 9/11 Truth Movement, the Patriot Movement, and in the interest of the Preservation of Natural Law, such as our racial, cultural, and tribal identities, don't rely on lies and dis-information; straw-men, boogey-men, scapegoats to get our point across or justify our right to fight. You may like to do this. I don't.

Bigger pictures.. Such as? In the day of the internet, everyone with a computer and an opinion can paint a picture of some gloomy dystopic future.

Who does a person believe?

Yes, and it's a shame people use this opportunity, in the day of the internet, to spread false information and lies, which well-meaning people like you fall for and prevent you from waking up to what's actually going on. Something that the establishment is fighting tooth and nail to ensure happens to as many people as possible.

If, as some say, the 9/11 events were premeditated by a political cabal, what use is it to get all disturbed?

You may like to be lied to by your representitives, your leaders, and your overlords. I don't. And it disturbs me that there are people that have your kind of lazy, cowardly attitude on this whole thing.

The enemy has marched over the Rubicon, you have to decide, in the end, what side you are on.

[Sol Invictus]

I am aware of false flag operations and realize that they are a common method of warfare.

I do not think that 9/11 is an example of one although the American government did take advantage of it to launch the Iraq war.

While I am categorically skeptical about anything that follows the pattern of conspiracy theories, and see the obsessiveness of their enthusiasts as more indicative of their state of mind than of the probability they are right, I am especially skeptical of the 9/11 arguments.

What "conspiracy theories" are you referring to, exactly? That it's impossible for a building like the world trade centre to be collapsed from burning jetfuel at free-fall speeds, falling into the path of most resistance?

Is the Laws of Inertia a conspiracy theory too?

I also knew a close friend of one of the guys who heroically fought the hijackers and downed the flight in PA and know he was capable of what has been attributed to him.

A dog has the ability to be heroic too. I guess that's also a conspiracy theory as well though..

I do not agree with the so-called butterfly effect where some trivial detail can transform the big picture.

Which trivial detail are you referring to?

the stunning obliviousness of the FBI to alQaida's preparations. Meanwhile the decay of governance in outlying areas such as Afghanistan gave room for AlQaida to plan such an attack.

Where have you been the last 8 years? I hope you haven't been living in a tree or something, because the FBI knew full well what was going to happen. Just because you don't want to believe that doesn't mean it ain't going on buddy.

The 9/11 attack was vivid enough for them to find it. It was convenient, but that convenience is not evidence for a well-planned project to create that event.

How do you explain Amalgam Virgo? Global Guardian? Vigilant Guardian? Northern Guardian etc etc etc ?? How do you explain the wargames that were going on, practicing the exact same scenarios during and prior to 9/11 which implicated the entire roster provided to us of the Hijackers who carried out 9/11?If this wasn't a project laid out on paper prior to the attacks then I must be going blind. Or maybe that's just you.

G.W. Bush lacked the basic wisdom and knowledge a leader needs and this left the lower levels unchecked.

G.W. Bush wasn't calling the shots on 9/11 and he wasn't in charge of executing every single military movement up to and on the day of 9/11.

However, 60 per cent of the 9/11 Commission members will tell you straight up that Bush and Cheney had conveyed the orders to shoot down the Hijacked planes. Namely, flight 93 which was the aircraft in question at the hearings.

Like an earthquake expresses the movement of fault lines, the events of 9/11 expressed the movement of the decades-long tendency of the emergence of a surveillance state.

Exactly. This is but one of the outcomes the state has benefited from in 9/11. This is a step closer in removing any opposition to their power. Namely those labelled as Right-Wing "extremists" and "terrorists" (Yes, that's you and me..and most everyone else here) as enemies of the state. The NEW, and improved Al Qaeda. And his skin is white.

[Ulf]

The towers came down because of planes, there was no controlled demolition or thermite. WTC 7 was poorly engineered and not meant to withstand much.

As for the back story, I believe there is more we need to know about why this was allowed to happen.

[Sol Invictus]

The towers came down because of planes, there was no controlled demolition or thermite.

Ah ok, Ulf. So I guess your opinion of this trumps the thousands of Architechts and Engineers, as well as students in A&E. Hundreds of eye-witness accounts of flashes, and explosions at the base of the towers as well as the under-infrastructure that preceeded the collapse of the upper sections of the towers?

The pyroclastic dust clouds that billowed out into the streets of lower Manhatten? The pool of lava that the supposed jet-fuel created, which Police, Firemen, and Paramedics discovered in the obliterated wreckage of the towers which was so hot, it was picked up from satelites in outer-space?

Ok Gotcha.

WTC 7 was poorly engineered and not meant to withstand much.

Yes, because we all know that modern 30+ floor buildings built in the past few decades were so poorly designed that they collapse in 6 seconds completely into it's own footprint from fires on two floors.

As for the back story, I believe there is more we need to know about why this was allowed to happen.

I'm with you on that one.

[Mrs Ulf]

Or maybe the distraction was the towers, you spend all this time figuring this mystery out while all the true lies slip under the radar.

[Cato]

No, they are directly linked, and you have been conditioned to accept, by the modern propaganda machine, and even outright deny the tyrannical consequences have resulted from the event and the aftermath itself.

I don't think I need to point out the contradictions which riddle 90 per cent of all this drivel.

We in the 9/11 Truth Movement, the Patriot Movement, and in the interest of the [b]Preservation of Natural Law/[b], such as our racial, cultural, and tribal identities, don't rely on lies and dis-information; straw-men, boogey-men, scapegoats to get our point across or justify our right to fight. You may like to do this. I don't.

Yes, and it's a shame people use this opportunity, in the day of the internet, to spread false information and lies, which well-meaning people like you fall for and prevent you from waking up to what's actually going on. Something that the establishment is fighting tooth and nail to ensure happens to as many people as possible.

You may like to be lied to by your representitives, your leaders, and your overlords. I don't. And it disturbs me that there are people that have your kind of lazy, cowardly attitude on this whole thing.

The enemy has marched over the Rubicon, you have to decide, in the end, what side you are on.

What should disturb you more is that you yourself disturbed by what I happen to believe. That's where you fall into a trap of your own devising- you become the slave of someone else's opinions and beliefs and activities, and your entire life adjusts accordingly.

[Sol Invictus]

Or maybe the distraction was the towers, you spend all this time figuring this mystery out while all the true lies slip under the radar.

Figuring out this 'mystery' isn't what takes up all this time.

It's not hard at all to figure out, actually.

Some common sense and a little bit of scientific knowledge will provide you with all the information you need to equip your mind to fight against the psychological warfare our enemies have waged on us.

But if you don't want to fight to begin with; if you are perfectly happy with your beer in the fridge, your ball-games, your porn, your internet etc etc then it doesn't matter anyway. It's all for naught.

These people are already slaves to the blood-thirsty enemy. No amount of talking, no amount of facts will save them.

[Ulf]

Thermite has a high luminosity, explosives would blow out windows. Is it so hard to believe 10-20 floors collapsing downward would, say, continue collapsing downward. In a controlled demolition the whole thing gives out at once. I watched while practically each floor was taken out one by one.