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Thread: Citizens of 108 countries live in Lithuania

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    I don't think the partition of Poland - this is what it is called - affected Lithuanian peasantry negatively.
    The first partition happened before the May constitution hence the correct name is the partition of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth while calling it simply "the partition of Poland" is factually incorrect.

    And you are forgetting that only Sudovia (i.e. a subset of Lithuanians in whose folklore Prussians are viewed the most negatively) was snatched by Prussia, the rest of Lithuania was annexed by Russia. You think that Tsarist occupation was very beneficial to Lithuania? With the press ban and all?

    On the other hand, specifically due to this occupation by Prussia, Sudovian folk traditions are the least archaic of all Lithuanians (the folk costume, the songs and dances), so the effect of being in Prussian-German sphere of influence on traditional Lithuanian culture can be considered very negative - for the economical side it's the opposite but wealth isn't the end of all IMO.

  2. #12
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    How much Poles and Belarussians in census?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by link View Post
    The first partition happened before the May constitution hence the correct name is the partition of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth while calling it simply "the partition of Poland" is factually incorrect.
    Yes, but with the Lithuanian nobility polonized, Lithuania becames a quantite negligeable in the name:
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...and_german.png


    Quote Originally Posted by link View Post
    And you are forgetting that only Sudovia (i.e. a subset of Lithuanians in whose folklore Prussians are viewed the most negatively) was snatched by Prussia, the rest of Lithuania was annexed by Russia. You think that Tsarist occupation was very beneficial to Lithuania? With the press ban and all?
    We were talking about the Prussian context, I made that clear with the afore mentioned circular in Lithuanian.

    Quote Originally Posted by link View Post
    On the other hand, specifically due to this occupation by Prussia, Sudovian folk traditions are the least archaic of all Lithuanians (the folk costume, the songs and dances), so the effect of being in Prussian-German sphere of influence on traditional Lithuanian culture can be considered very negative - for the economical side it's the opposite but wealth isn't the end of all IMO.
    Prosperity is everything, it brings education. The prosperous farmers of the Suvalkija wanted their sons to be educated. There - under the influence of Prussian-Lithuanian culture - the XXX-Lithuanian national revival started.
    The XXX stands for a word that you don't want me to use. I won't use it because I don't want to antagonize you.
    Last edited by Skomand; 05-23-2013 at 07:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    I don't know.There was the Soviet propaganda against Germany of the past which would have had an influence on their choice. But leaving for Britain or Ireland is more of an emigration than travelling to Germany would have been. I think ties with Germany might have been more beneficial.
    I doubt it. Sure, we learn at schools and from older family members about the contacts with Germans but I haven't heard such an argument coming from a Lithuanian.

    Having to learn German language is a much greater barrier. Everyone has to study English at school, so most young people know the language at least a little bit. German might be a secondary foreign language if you choose it over Russian. Though it is harder to study German than the other two languages for obvious reasons. On the other hand, open borders would have had produced larger classes of those preferring German. There is quite a difference between knowing that the borders are open right now and that they are going to be opened some 8 years later. If you work in Lithuania, knowing Russian is more useful and it is easier to learn it than German.

    Btw, Skomand, would like to inform us about your progress in studying Lithuanian? I'm interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamane View Post

    Btw, Skomand, would like to inform us about your progress in studying Lithuanian? I'm interested.
    I haven't progressed much and I'm still struggling to find the method that fits me best.
    I can do sentences like this: "Mano tevas dabar dirba universiteto bibliotekoja." I would need an exercise book that slightly varies this sentence (other cases etc) into for instance:"Siandien jis dirba namie." And so on.
    To make it stick in my memory I use a repeat player.

    There is a website that has this approach: LITHUANIAN OUT LOUD. The problem is that whenever the English speaker intervenes with his translation into English, this spoils my concentration.

    I think you can't become an active user of Lithuanian via written texts or grammars alone(I do have about 10 Lithuanian grammars now, including Prussian ones). It must be learned by listening and reproducing the sounds. The representation of sounds in letters I find sometimes unfortunate.

    The structure of Lithuanian does not seem too difficult to understand. The problem is the vocabulary that is not transparent, while when I do Spanish it all flows from what I know in Latin and French.
    One of the first words I learnt was pasivaikščioti . When you see it first you might want to run out of your Lithuanian language course classroom. When you hear 10 times repeatedly it starts sucking in.
    Last edited by Skomand; 05-24-2013 at 12:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by link View Post
    On the other hand, specifically due to this occupation by Prussia, Sudovian folk traditions are the least archaic of all Lithuanians (the folk costume, the songs and dances), so the effect of being in Prussian-German sphere of influence on traditional Lithuanian culture can be considered very negative - for the economical side it's the opposite but wealth isn't the end of all IMO.

    Here is the circular of 1795, in German and in Lithuanian. Did Poles or later Russians ever use Lithuanian as administrative language?

    If not, then this is really something that must have boosted Lithuanian self-awareness.






  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roys View Post
    How much Poles and Belarussians in census?
    Poles - 6.6%
    Belarusians - 1.2%
    Lithuanians - 84.1%

    That's based on the data from the latest survey (2011):
    http://db1.stat.gov.lt/statbank/sele...var13=&rvar14=

    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    Here is the circular of 1795, in German and in Lithuanian. Did Poles or later Russians ever use Lithuanian as administrative language?

    If not, then this is really something that must have boosted Lithuanian self-awareness.
    The mass Polonization of peasantry only started after the failed revolts against the Tsarist government, in particular the 1863's one. If the partitions would not have happened - and the revolts too - do you think that the so-called self-awareness wouldn't have reached us from East Prussia's Lietuvininkai Protestants anyway? But in that scenario the ground on which it would have been seeded might have been stronger than what it had become due to Tsarist occupation. What I mean to say, is that maybe without the partitions ethnic Lithuanian lands in the East would not have become Slavicized.
    Last edited by lI; 06-30-2013 at 05:42 AM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by link View Post
    However, antipathy towards Germans is not a new thing that developed due to Soviet propaganda, it has very old traditions in Lithuania's regions which formerly bordered East Prussia.
    Even the most archaic layers of Sudovian (Suvalkiečių/Sudūvių) folklore is full of songs, sayings, proverbs like this one:
    Sun, dear mother, come onto us, onto us!
    Clouds with black lining, onto Prussians ye go, onto Prussians!
    There you will get nice towels...


    I stand corrected - apparently South-East Lithuanians have similar songs too, except that they were a bit more explicit...
    Maybe it was just friendly teasing after all, nothing special.
    Dear cloud, ye little chunk, go past us!
    Onto Belarusian calves ye go!
    If not on calves, then onto sheep
    Belarusian's balls are wet
    Dear rain, don't you rain!
    We're little shepherds
    Our fur coats are short
    It's cold for us, it is cold...


    For comparison, Latvians were sending rain onto both Estonians and Lithuanians

    Dear rain go past us
    Onto that piece of land
    Lithuanian girls are crying sorrowfully
    While searching for water

    http://www.dainuskapis.lv/daina/2807...esana-plausana

    Go roaring and wailing, you rain,
    over to those black Estonians!
    Come singing, dear sun,
    over to those white Latvians!
    Estonians have black clothes
    They need rain
    Latvian have white clothes
    They don't need any more rain

    http://www.dainuskapis.lv/meklet/Igau%C5%86iem

    Only Northern Lithuanians (Samogitians & Aukstaitians) were not sending rain onto anybody.

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    It is also not clear who is meant by "Prussians". The Lietuwininkai were also called "Prusai" by the Lithuanians across the border.

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