Anniversary of Swieciany. Lithuanian collaboration with the Nazi Germany.

[Mans not hot]

Due to joint action of the Nazi Germany and Lithuanian police about 400 Poles were murders in Swieciany. Including women and children.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=h...poland&f=false

What interesting in October 2011 "unknown perpetrators" destroyed graves, smeared crosses with paint and painted swastika in the Sweciany necropolis.

[lI]

Due to joint action of the Nazi Germany and Lithuanian police about 400 Poles were murders in Swieciany. Including women and children.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=h...poland&f=false

What interesting in October 2011 "unknown perpetrators" destroyed graves, smeared crosses with paint and painted swastika in the Sweciany necropolis.

Same as what Poles do to Lithuanian memorials in Poland, except that there they use the symbols of armia krajowa (polish army which perpetrated genocide again the local Lithuanians, more info about the genocide can be found in this documentary with English subtitles).

Elsewhere in Poland Poles are using Nazi symbols themselves and I don't even have to dig for several years old article like you do, here's an article written on March 20, 2013

In Poland, “Murder the Jews” was spray-painted on the walls of a newly dedicated Jewish cemetery in Myslenice near Krakow, along with a swastika and the symbol of the elite Nazi SS unit, the news website miasto-info.pl reported.

Read more: http://www.jta.org/2013/03/20/news-o...#ixzz2TyoGOOBM

BTW the Švenčionių slaughter you made a thread about here happened when Polish partisans robbed (taking a diamond ring off the finger of one of the murdered officers and other valuables) and murdered high-ranking German soldiers and then ran-away to the woods leaving the local inhabitants without any protection from the Nazi retaliation - so brave of them, eh?
Not all local inhabitants whom the Nazis subsequently killed were Poles, there were also Lithuanians.

The difference between Švenčioniai slaughter and the ethnic cleansing performed in the same region by Polish armia krajowa is that the former was not initiated by Lithuanians, that was a Nazi German operation and just because there happened to be some collaborating Lithuanian scum, it doesn't make the whole nation accountable while in the later case the initiative was fully organized and performed by Poles.

[Mans not hot]

Same as what Poles do to Lithuanian memorials in Poland, except that there they use the symbols of armia krajowa (polish army which perpetrated genocide again the local Lithuanians, more info about the genocide can be found in this documentary with English subtitles).

What documentary?

Elsewhere in Poland Poles are using Nazi symbols themselves and I don't even have to dig for several years old article like you do, here's an article written on March 20, 2013
Quote
In Poland, “Murder the Jews” was spray-painted on the walls of a newly dedicated Jewish cemetery in Myslenice near Krakow, along with a swastika and the symbol of the elite Nazi SS unit, the news website miasto-info.pl reported.
Read more: http://www.jta.org/2013/03/20/news-o...#ixzz2TyoGOOBM

The link is broken. How do you know they were Poles?

BTW the Švenčionių slaughter you made a thread about here happened when Polish partisans robbed (taking a diamond ring off the finger of one of the murdered officers and other valuables) and murdered high-ranking German soldiers and then ran-away to the woods leaving the local
inhabitants without any protection from the Nazi retaliation - so brave of them, eh?

Attacking high-ranking soldiers looks braver to me than murdering women and children. However, the Swieciany slaughter was just one of the series of attacks on Polish civilians, which started long before the one XX wrote about. This particular action was preceded by an assassination of Germans done by Soviet partisans, not by Armia Krajowa. AK was overall careful not to provoke retaliations on civilians, that was one of the standing orders throughout the war.

The difference between Švenčioniai slaughter and the ethnic cleansing performed in the same region by Polish armia krajowa is that the former was not initiated by Lithuanians, that was a Nazi German operation and just because there happened to be some collaborating Lithuanian scum, it doesn't make the whole nation accountable while in the later case the initiative was fully organized and performed by Poles.

Just to enlighten you a little tiny bit about the situation:

Under the Ambrazevicius administration, as well as under the directorate uf Kubiliunas the Lithuanianization of Wilenszczyzna followed the same pattern as before, except that now there was much more anti-Polish rhetoric and violence. Some clergy called from the pulpit for Polish pogroms, stating that the Poles were worse than the ]ews.[50] There were reports that Lithuanian priests were offering indulgences for the killing of Po|es.[51] At least one enterprising Lithuanian professor devoted a paper to the theme "Why We Should Hate the Poles," and the LAF called for the erection of Polish ghettoes, for the establishment of ordinances requiring Poles to wear identication badges, and for the reduction of food rations to Poles -- while bragging that under the Soviets they had exterminated 50 percent of the Poles and that under the Germans they planned to exterminate the other 50 percent.[53]

This was not 'some scum', this was the leading Lithuanian policy, and a continuation of this very policy as executed during the Soviet occupation. On the other hand, the murder of several dozen Lithuanians by Lupaszko was against the AK orders about avoiding retaliation on civilians.

As for 'ethnic cleansing by AK' you better have some sources to back it up. For now, my troll sensor flashes red.

A general advice: while discussing crimes of WW2 try to avoid neo-nazi sources.

[lI]

A general advice: while discussing crimes of WW2 try to avoid neo-nazi sources.

A general advice while discussing the crimes of WW2 is to avoid certain chauvinistic Polish sources (which is not to say that all Polish sources are chauvinistic) where they are trying to whitewash their own crimes by exaggerating those of their former victims.

The link is broken.

The link isn't broken in my quote, you broke it when instead of using the quote function you manually copied and pasted it yourself.
Works fine here:

Elsewhere in Poland Poles are using Nazi symbols themselves and I don't even have to dig for several years old article like you do, here's an article written on March 20, 2013

In Poland, “Murder the Jews” was spray-painted on the walls of a newly dedicated Jewish cemetery in Myslenice near Krakow, along with a swastika and the symbol of the elite Nazi SS unit, the news website miasto-info.pl reported.

Read more: http://www.jta.org/2013/03/20/news-opinion/world/spate-of-anti-semitic-incidents-recorded-in-eastern-europe#ixzz2TyoGOOBM

What documentary?

Again, I already posted a link to it, press the bolded phrase, the hyperlink is working fine:

more info about the genocide can be found in this documentary with English subtitles).

How do you know they were Poles?

How do you know the ones who painted Nazi symbols in Lithuania were Lithuanians? Posting a remark about it right after a sentence about Lithuanians means that you deliberately implied that they were Lithuanians.
Little do you know that some of the fiercest radicals of South East Lithuania are not Lithuanian, e.g.: http://emigration-etc.blogspot.com/2...n-vilnius.html

Surely, you aren't suggesting that it was Jews themselves who did it near Krakow? Apart from Poles and Jews there are hardly any other nationalities around Krakow where it happened: 78.1% of Krakowians declared Polish as their primary language, 20.9% - Yiddish or Hebrew, Ukrainian 0.4%, German 0.3%, and Russian 0.1%.

It's not like certain Polish far-right parties (NOP, Niklot, ONR) aren't renowned for their pro-Nazism.

Attacking high-ranking soldiers looks braver to me than murdering women and children.

Attacking high-ranking soldiers with the knowledge that they will murder local inhabitants as a retaliation IS in itself as bad as murdering those women and children.
As far as I am concerned, both - the Nazis and the pathetic murders/robbers not worthy of the name "partisans" were scum.

However, the Swieciany slaughter was just one of the series of attacks on Polish civilians, which started long before the one XX wrote about. This particular action was preceded by an assassination of Germans done by Soviet partisans, not by Armia Krajowa.
AK was overall careful not to provoke retaliations on civilians, that was one of the standing orders throughout the war.

My mistake about this particular case but you're are wrong about AK being careful not to provoke retaliations. They're relationship with Nazis only improved after Lithuania was occupied by the Soviets for the second time and Nazis were supplying AK weapons.

Just to enlighten you a little tiny bit about the situation:

Just to enlighten you a bit further, violence against Poles that you are talking about here was first and foremost violence against the Polish Armia Krajowa - that was mainstream.

Another important thing is that certain Lithuanian priests and professors merely talking that all Poles ought to be genocided and Poles actually genociding Lithuanians is not on par. If you think otherwise, read the memoirs of the former AK egzekutor Stefan Dąmbski.

while bragging that under the Soviets they had exterminated 50 percent of the Poles and that under the Germans they planned to exterminate the other 50 percent.

That doesn't even make any sense. The person who made up such shit clearly had problems with maths - the proportion of Polish population is South East LT did not decrease after the first Soviet occupation, go check the stats. So, what 50% of exterminated Poles is he going on about? Were there 150% Poles in the region before the 1st Soviet occupation? It decreased much much later and mainly in Vilnius city due to immigration, not Vilnius region.

This was not 'some scum', this was the leading Lithuanian policy, and a continuation of this very policy as executed during the Soviet occupation.

This is bullshit. The AK units were collaborating with Soviets when talking over Vilnius from Nazis but little did they know that Soviets would later turn back on them. Your ramblings about some anti-Polish policy continuing during the 2nd Soviet occupations are bizarre. Out of the three Baltic states Lithuania had the strongest anti-Soviet partisan movement and all Lithuanian partisans were targeted and subsequently exterminated by Soviets too, not just the Polish AK ones.

On the other hand, the murder of several dozen Lithuanians by Lupaszko was against the AK orders about avoiding retaliation on civilians.

There weren't several dozens of murdered Lithuanians, there were thousands upon thousands!

Go watch the documentary that I linked to.

Then read the memoirs of Stefan Dąmbski.

And then we can talk.

[Ivan Kramskoï]

Happy birthday

[Cleitus]

Did you know that 14 000 000 German civilists were killed from the Allied Forces ??

[Windischer]

Did you know that 14 000 000 German civilists were killed from the Allied Forces ??

6,9 million germans (civillian and military losses) died in and after war started by germany; including germans living outside germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...n_World_War_II


on topic: a generic eastern european thread.

[Mans not hot]

A general advice while discussing the crimes of WW2 is to avoid certain chauvinistic Polish sources (which is not to say that all Polish sources are chauvinistic) where they are trying to whitewash their own crimes by exaggerating those of their former victims.

Which sources do you have in mind?

Here's more info about the genocide can be found in this documentary with English subtitles).

Deeply obliged. There are no English subtitles. If you speak Lithuanian so fluently, please provide a summary. Although this will be useless as an argument anyway, as uncheckable.

Little do you know that some of the fiercest radicals of South East Lithuania are not Lithuanian, e.g.:
http://emigration-etc.blogspot.com/2...n-vilnius.html

Broken link. Linking is not your strongest point, is it.

Surely, you aren't suggesting that it was Jews themselves who did it near Krakow?

I am saying that you are excusing desecration of Polish graves in Lithuania by the fact that somebody desecrated Jewish graves near Kraków. I am saying that this is kinda pathetic.

Attacking high-ranking soldiers with the knowledge that they will murder local inhabitants as a retaliation IS in itself as bad as murdering those women and children. As far as I am concerned, both - the murderers and pathetic murders/robbers not worthy of the name "partisans" were scum.

But they were Soviets, they didn't care about retaliations.

My mistake about this particular case but you're are wrong about AK being careful not to provoke retaliations. They're relationship with Nazis only improved after Lithuania was occupied by the Soviets for the second time and Nazis were supplying AK weapons.

So AK was in quite good relationship with the Nazis in 1942, and thus provoked retaliations on Poles freely, is what you are saying?

Just to enlighten you a bit further, violence against Poles that you are talking about here was first and foremost violence against the Polish Armia Krajowa - that was mainstream.

He was active in Rzeszowskie, not in Lithuania, and his memoirs are considered confabulations. However, you are free to quote them here, just to avoid accusations of lying through your teeth.

That doesn't even make any sense.

Bragging seldom does.

This is bull*****. The AK units were collaborating with Soviets when talking over Vilnius from Nazis but little did they know that Soviets would later turn back on them. Your ramblings about some anti-Polish policy continuing during the 2nd Soviet occupations are bizarre.

Those ramblings are not mine, so feel free to call them whatever. Reading with understanding is another skill you'd be advised to master.

Those ramblings are not mine, so feel free to call them whatever. Reading with understanding is another skill you'd be advised to master.
Out of the three Baltic states Lithuania had the strongest anti-Soviet partisan movement

Rubbish. Estonia was the strongest.

There weren't several dozens of murdered Lithuanians, there were thousands upon thousands!

Sources in the next post, or I will closed this thread due to your trolling.

[Philo]

Fuck 'em.

[Mans not hot]

Fuck 'em.

WHo?