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Thread: Were the ancient Romans Nordic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Let's start with the obvious fact that Roman Emperors were predominantly light pigmented:
    Spoiler!
    The real question is, where would these 18 emperors plot in this PCA map?


    Consider that, in Italy, you can potentially find all these phenotypes (30 pics):

    Spoiler!

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    Senior Member Arch Hades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Let's start with the obvious fact that Roman Emperors were predominantly light pigmented:


    If you haven't noticed: Firstly, Yamna as the first urheimat is highly disputed, as there is no proof that e. g. they formed the Corded Ware, Bell-Beaker or later Unetice cultures. They also had 25% autosomal Iranian influence that everyone forgets to mention. Secondly, there is a difference between 3500 B.C. and ~1200 B.C. when the first Italic peoples migrated to the peninsula. They were derived from the Unetice culture, and was closely related to the Hallstatt culture, which I hope you already know was Nordic (that's where the "Hallstatt Nordic" term comes from).
    Let's start with the obvious fact that All of those sources are trash except for Pliny and Seutonius. Please don't tell me the Byzantine Greek Malalus who lived 4 to 6 centuries after they lived knew what they looked like or actually saw them. I think I'll write a book on what the Pilgrims of Plymouth Rock looked like. And Sieglin? A 19th century German Nordicist? Seriously?

    So we only have real descriptions of the first few emperors. Who are described as light pigmented sure..

    Secondly sure 1200 BC central Europeans were probably starting to genetically and phenotypically resemble modern ones absolutely..... but has the Unetice culture even been found in Italy? Not to mention a 'culture' and pots and pans and tools does not necessarily equate to genes. So when I see genomes of people resembling modern central or East Europeans in Italy then i'll lend these hypothesis a little more credulity. I'm not even asking for Roman Patrician genomes...just any genomes from 1500-500 BC people South of the Alps IN ITALY resembling Central Europeans.

    Bell Beakers are associated with Indo-European and Celtic and Italic speech too and the Bell Beakers of Italy genomes we have are not Northern or Central Europeans...they resemble North Italians and Spanish. Nordicists were saying the same thing with earlier Remedello culture in Italy and those people are near pure Neolithic farmers via Allentoft 2015.

    So yeah all I really see is a bunch of conjecture, far reaching speculation, etc.

    You really think people in Southern Europe are going to believe these far reaching theories without real proof? And instead base it on the Nordicist interpretation of Sieglin or Malalus who lived 500 years after the Roman emperors did? This isnt 'denial' this is healthy skepticism and a demand for a real burden of proof.

    Look how full of shit the Nordicists turned out to be on Mycenaean Greece. Now I don't expect Roman Patricians to be anywhere near that damn Mediterranean but I have a hard time seeing them as Central European without real proof. The first demand is to find genetically Central European people in Bronze or Iron age Italy. Not North Italian or Spaniard like but CENTRAL EUROPEAN LIKE [Polish-German-Czech]. There hasnt been a single ancient bronze or Iron age Italian genome sequenced to date that has shown that.

    Last edited by Arch Hades; 10-10-2018 at 10:08 PM.

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    Veteran Member The Blade's Avatar
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    I believe they were mostly of Mediterranean type but mixed with various other elements at certain points of their history and interaction with other ancient peoples. These elements seem to have been mostly Dinaric and Alpine but to some extent also Nordic.

    Being dumb is only painful for others because you don't know you are.

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    they were dinaromeds mostly, and had connections with the greeks and trojans.

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