What would have happened if Austria-Hungary didn't collapse, and was still here?

[Szegedist]

Hypothetically, if the Central Powers won WW1/ WW1 never happened/ WW1 ended without a decisive victor, and the Monarchy remained more or less intact, how different do you think Central Europe, Balkan and maybe the whole of Europe would have been today?


Stats:
It was 676,615 km² big , with a population of 52,800,000 in 1914.

[Baluarte]

They'd have probably given more authonomy to quench the rising nationalisms, and to seek internal peace after the budgetary hardships of a postwar.

It's possible they'd have eventually tried to go for a Switzeland-like confederacy type. Perhaps the most distant ethnicities, like Italians, Croats and Poles would have left anyway, but the Austrian center, the Hungarian lands, and the rest could have found a proper arrangement.

[Szegedist]

They'd have probably given more authonomy to quench the rising nationalisms, and to seek internal peace after the budgetary hardships of a postwar.

It's possible they'd have eventually tried to go for a Switzeland-like confederacy type. Perhaps the most distant ethnicities, like Italians, Croats and Poles would have left anyway, but the Austrian center, the Hungarian lands, and the rest could have found a proper arrangement.

United States of Greater Austria


The United States of Greater Austria (German: Vereinigte Staaten von Groß-Österreich) was a proposal, conceived by a group of scholars surrounding the Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand, that never came to pass. This specific proposal was conceived by Aurel Popovici in 1906.

The idea of the Dual Monarchy system of 1867 had been to split the previous Austrian Empire into two realms, one German-dominated, the other Hungarian-dominated. However, after various demonstrations, uprisings and acts of terrorism, it became readily apparent that the notion of two ethnic groups dominating the other ten could not survive in perpetuum.

Franz Ferdinand had planned to redraw the map of Austria-Hungary radically, creating a number of ethnically and linguistically dominated semi-autonomous "states" which would all be part of a larger confederation renamed the United States of Greater Austria. Under this plan, language and cultural identification was encouraged, and the disproportionate balance of power would be corrected. The idea was set to encounter heavy opposition from the Hungarian part of the Dual Monarchy, since a direct result of the reform would have been a significant territorial loss for Hungary.

However, the Archduke was assassinated at Sarajevo in 1914, triggering the outbreak of the First World War. After the war Austria-Hungary was dismantled and several new nation states were created, and various Austro-Hungarian territories were ceded to neighbouring countries by the victorious Entente powers.

[Baluarte]

That's very interesting. I really dislike the awful "United States of..." reference, but seems useful somehow.

Good map, shows what should be the real north border with Slovakia and the towns in Vojvodina that are left inside Hungary. Also glad to see authonomy for Székely Land.

I've always truly wondered all the implications behind the murder of Franz Ferdinand, seems there's a lot left unsaid.
Pity that the Allies made it their goal to dismember Austria and rule through promotng dissent.

[Szegedist]

I think if it survived, it would have been one of the major political, economic, cultural hubs of Europe.
At the time it had one of the fastest growing economies in Europe, had a strong industrial base, a strong agricultural base, large population. What it needed were more reforms, but WW1 came at the same time these reforms were being thought about.

What the breakaway statelets are too foolish to realize is that in the long run the entire region suffered and turned into a shitole of little significance.

[Szegedist]

Over today's map of Europe

[Baluarte]

The sad truth.

That's why I've always kept a moderate opinion about volkism, pan-Germanism or pan-Slavism for example, under its romantic guise sometimes it hides militant tribalism, and political destruction and historic reshifting (remember the creep guy saying Austria is undifferentiable from Germany )

Cui bono?
We can reasonably guess

[Wolf]

Hypothetically, if the Central Powers won WW1/ WW1 never happened/ WW1 ended without a decisive victor, and the Monarchy remained more or less intact, how different do you think Central Europe, Balkan and maybe the whole of Europe would have been today?

In my opinion, a persistence of Austria-Hungary seems to be very doubtful. In a best-case scenario, Austria-Hungary would have become a democratic federal state, but finally the member states would nevertheless have declared their independence, like in the case of Czechoslovakia. In a worst-case scenario, Austria-Hungary would have been perished in a civil war, like in the case of Yugoslavia.

A certain form of repression seems to be necessary for authoritarian multi-ethnic states in order to ensure their own survival.

[Baluarte]

Switzerland seems to prove the opposite.

[Wolf]

Switzerland seems to prove the opposite.

Switzerland is a unique case, the state is based on voluntary.

In contrast to that, Austria-Hungary was an random accumulation of several realms by the House of Habsburg. The only thing which all subjects had in common was the dynasty.