Vlachs (Aromanians): who they overlap with?

[Trun]

Vlachs are Latin-speaking descendants of native Balkan tribes. Don't confuse them with Romanians. Their closest related ethnic group are Sarakatsani, but I don't include them in the poll.

[Sikeliot]

Greek, Albanian, Bulgarian mostly.. some of them with Sicilians and Maltese too but they look thoroughly Balkan.

[Trun]

Greek, Albanian, Bulgarian mostly.. some of them with Sicilians and Maltese too but they look thoroughly Balkan.

Many of them look different from ethnic Bulgarians. Most notable traits are big bushy eyebrows and hawk noses. They resemble more Greeks and Armenians.

Still there is an overlap of course. By the way, it is very popular for Serbs and some Bulgarians on anthroboards to blame Vlachs if a person looks very Med

[Sikeliot]

They don't look Armenian.

[wvwvw]

............

[wvwvw]

As far as Sarakatsani go, they are clearly Greek in culture, language and identification. They have never spoken any language other than Greek. It is not just the language of the Sarakatsani that is Greek, but also their customs, traditions, clothing, art, and identity, i.e. their entire culture.

If they were of non-Greek 'origin' there should be at least some trace of that origin in their language or culture. Yet that is not the case. Even the Aromanian loanwords they use are recent borrowings.

If you read the statute of the Pan-Hellenic Federation of Sarakatsani (Πανελλήνια Ομοσπονδία Συλλόγων Σαρακατσαναίων) you will see very clear that not only they stress their Greek identity but they claim their culture to be a direct descendant of the ancient Greek:

"Purpose of the Pan-Hellenic federation is to a) coordinate every club of Sarakatsani of Greece in order to preserve and transmit our folk culture and tradition, as the continuation of the ancient Greek civilization.. b) to defend and promote the culture and the rights of Hellenism." I think it speaks for itself

[Trun]

They overlap with Greeks, but as expected of Twitch he picked some ugly pics

It is funny that the Afgan looking Twitch will talk of hawked noses and bushy eyebrows when himself has them

I see you are butthurt as usual. I have distant Vlach ancestry so calm down now.

[wvwvw]

Hoeg, Gergakas, Kavadias, Hatzimihali, Campbell, Hammond is the dominant bibliography in the subject.

Some of the principal resources for the life and customs of the Sarakatsani and their costumes are Carsten Hoeg Les Sarakatsans :une tribe nomade Grecque; Angeliki Hatzimichali, Sarakatsanoi [Sarakatsans], 2 vols. (Athens 1957); ...J.K Campbel Honour, Family and Patronage: A Study of Institutions and Moral Values in a Greek Mountain Community,(oxford 1964); GB Kavvadias, Σαρακατσάνοι Μια Ελληνική Ποιμενική κοινωνία; Vasilios G Tsaousis.

Campbel has done field work with Sarakatsani and Hatzimihali has spent a lifetime with them. Cambel in his book even pays tribute to Hatzimihali.

Cambel addresses in his book the matter of ethnic origin of Sarakatsani and talks about the debate about their origin. Honour, Family and Patronage: A Study of Institutions and Moral Values in a Greek Mountain Community page 3 till page 6:

“In recent decades the problem of the origin of the Sarakatsan communities has provoked a considerable amount of writing. Interest was aroused more particular after the publication in 1925 a brilliant linguistic study of the Sarakatsan dialect by the Danish scolar, Carsten Hoeg. In the opening chapters of his work Hoeg gives some ethnographic details of the communities he visited and presents a theory that these shepherds are the descendants of primitive pastoral tribes , which he believes must always have existed in this part of Greece from pre-classical times. This view was naturally well received by Greek folklorist and historians . For equally obvious reasons it was strongly disputed bu a number of Romanian writers and publicist, of whom Theodor Capidan is the best known. Before 1939 -45 war these writers, continuing in a long tradition of Romanian propaganda, were eager to stress the relation the relation between Romanian and Koutsovlachs. But Capidan and his followers also claim that the Sarakatsani, far from being the descendants of ancient Greek tribesmen, were not Greek at all but Romanian Koutsovlach who in comparatively recent time had become Hellenized......In these debates the Greeks and their supporters present the more convincing argument......As is proper for a social anthropologist not concerned with the problem of origins, my own more limited conclusion is that in their social values and institutions, the Sarakatsani as they exist today provide no evidence of a past history that was ever anything but Greek.”

Ethnic groups worldwide: a ready reference handbook By David Levinson page 41 :” Sarakatsani are Greek-speaking people in northwestern Greece and southern Bulgaria. They number less than 100 thousand , are ethnically Greek, speak Greek, and are Greek orthodox.” (and this is written by David Levinson, Phd cultural anthropologist and former vice president of human relations area files of Yale University.)

The forgotten minorities of Eastern Europe: the history and today of selected ethnic five groups in five countries By Arno Tanner page 204-205 :

"The so called Saracatsani speak Greek. They have traditionally been real nomads who do not have a village of origin. Sometimes in the scientific literature the Sarakatsani are also refered as Vlachs. However anthropologists point out that mixed marriages between the Sarakatsani and the Koutso-Vlachs are extremely rare....The origin of the Vlachs are a subject of political dispute. The Greek speaking Sarakatsani consider themselves to be the most ancient Greeks, and the Vlachs of Greece call themself latinized Greeks.”

Among the best researchers in the field highly respected internationally, the only debate seems to be their historical origin and not ethnic. The term Greek speaking is used usually in order to stress the differences with Vlachs.
And if there is truly a debate about ethnic origin I relay on the authority of Campbel :

”the Sarakatsani as they exist today provide no evidence of a past history that was ever anything but Greek.”

There is really nothing to say about fringe theories like “Hellenized Thracian or Moesians, or Turks or Illyrians”. Why not “Hellenized Pelasgians Phrygians, or Martians”. Extra ordinary claims needs extra ordinary evidence. Where are they? Even more important who are the academics who have claimed such theories?

[Trun]

Some Sarakatsani in Bulgaria consider themselves Bulgarian, some even can't speak Greek.

[Mans not hot]

So, this is how they look like.. Interesting, because they don't even resemble Goral people in South Poland who are apparently Vlach influenced.