Hippie heathen atheists

[Allenson]

"The Force" seems more real to me than the power of mjollnir in any case.

Well, I think you've hit on it. The Gods, any gods, are personalizations of the many avenues & manifestations of The Force, regardless of what one calls them. The energies of the universe are real (I think ) and as we are merely soft fleshy entities made up of particles born of the primordial soup, our very existences are beacuse of the Forces That Be--they bind, they bite, they gather, they expell & they breathe life into.

The Force, may it be with you, broder Loke.

[Psychonaut]

1) Are all so-called heathens, Asatruars, etc directionless hippies who hail from the dregs of society?

I wish I had my books here so I could provide an exact quote, but Stephen McNallen (founder and head of the Asatru Folk Assembly) addressed this at some length in the second issue of TYR: Myth--Culture--Tradition. He's entirely correct that so far Heathenry, due to it's current status as a "fringe" religion has attracted far too many fringe types. We've attracted far too many mediocre individuals who are on the fringe because society has rejected them. What we should be concentrating on are those individuals who distinguish themselves from society by their deeds and nature. We should be seeking superior people.

3) Most heathens seem to be atheists anyway. I mean, you can't seriously believe that those deities really exist! Why not go all the way and become true rationalists.

Seeing is believing, be it in the mind's eye during an altered state of consciousness or when Wuotan sits down next to you on a plane. I generally don't publicly speculate about the mode in which they exist, but when I intend a deity, it is quite a different experience of noesis than is gleaned from any other type of noema. I've said before that to achieve these kinds of experiences, one must usually purposefully alter the doxic modality in which one is intending the deity, but after the first true encounter, the doxic shift occurs naturally, with less and less effort. This has been my experience.

My apologies for vomiting phenomenological terminology all over this thread, but I wanted to say exactly what I meant.

[Ulf]

For me it's Pascal's Wager plus my heritage.

Sure we have a bunch of crazies, but given a population there will always be a percentage of stupid inhabiting some of that population, probably a consistent percentage across the board. There are more Christians and Atheists than heathens, so they probably have more stupid people in their ranks than us.

Do our deities exist? Who knows, as far as I'm aware being a Theist is not a requirement of Heathenry. I think it's more about honoring your heritage and people than about theology and myths.

We are our Deeds. -Eric Wódening

[Jamt]

As a Lutheran, Heathens as hippies and traditionalists and maybe ancestor- worshipers is what I respect most. That is what makes sense spiritually. Heathens as Nietzsche-worshipers and/or pop-culture might be insane or under demonic influence I think.

[SuuT]

*SuuT takes deep breath, in expectation of the inevitable*

...
A few questions:

1) Are all so-called heathens, Asatruars, etc directionless hippies who hail from the dregs of society?

Some are, yes. But, the dregs beget the dregs and evetually cancel themselves out of Heathen equation by virtue of being lost souls, as opposed to Wanderers: if your foot takes a size 38 shoe, the size 46 that you're trying to walk around in will eventually fall off your foot. In other words, the fringe elements that Psycho spoke of are just that. Heathenry is not, in my opinion and experience, any different in attracting shit people than is Islam or Christianity or Madonna's Kabala reading circle.

2) Is heathenry merely a cover for racism?

No. It is openly racist insofar as "racist" and "ethnocentric" are synonymous. It is absurd, prima facie, for a Coptic Egyptian (as one example) to Blot to the Norns before, say, the birth of a child.

3) Most heathens seem to be atheists anyway. I mean, you can't seriously believe that those deities really exist! Why not go all the way and become true rationalists.

Because Rationalism/Empiricism/Materialism are not, necessarliy, mutually exclusive from the pursuit of knowledge, and the love of the wisdom gained, inherent to discovering the sense in which the gods exist, persisit, and subsist. And even the standard for this is not uniform: unlike the Catholic Church with Christianity, we do not hold a patent on metaphysical or spiritual pathways that, if everyone is held to, yields identical results for and to all who are held to it. Psycho, for example, is entering a deeply philosophical stage. Not everyone should do this; but, for him it is absolutely the mandate of his dominate instinct. For others, it is a walk through the woods. Heathenry accounts - in an unyieldingly defensible way - for the diversity of the Human Experience, as it is seen in Human Beings; not as a sterile, immobile, static edict from contradiction, itself.

Could there be anything more...rational?

[...]

Additionally, I will charge that heathens are way more wishy-washy and less dedicated to their "religion" than, say, Christians are.

If Christ swoops down from the sky tomorrow on his divine windsurfing board shooting lightening bolts out his ass at all the bad people it would only serve to strengthen the fact that I find the fable of Christ alien and unbelievable. You tell me: How's my devotion to the God of War, Wisdom and Poetry...?

[Fortis in Arduis]

According to some heathens, I am a heathen.

I believe that I am an eternal soul, in this body.

My concept of God is a benevolent loving God.

I do not follow a prescribed moral code, but instead believe that by trying to keep to certain holy self-disciplines, I will become a better man.

So, I am not an atheist, and not a hippie.

I suppose my focus is on purifying the body for meditation, and playing with the journey towards and away from yoga (union with God).

It is not easy, and the aspiration is very high, and I fail a lot, but I think that my life is much richer for this.

I was awakened about ten years ago, and since that point I have had no choice; even if I fail, this is my path.

My meditation is fixed, and I am a hatha yogi.

[Aemma]

The best defence you can come up with, dear Aemma?

Additionally, I will charge that heathens are way more wishy-washy and less dedicated to their "religion" than, say, Christians are. I say "religion", because it's not really a religion at all in the proper sense of the meaning. At best it's a loose recollection of old myths from pagan times, whose proper meaning had been lost in time anyway.

No one seriously equates modern Asatru with the religion that the pre-Christian Scandinavians and other Germanics practiced. One could just as well create a "religion" out of Star Wars, it would be equally beneficial and practical than modern heathenry. "The Force" seems more real to me than the power of mjollnir in any case.

Oh you know me way better than this, brother Loki! I took the lazy way out. Ooops! Did I really say that out loud?

I will answer seriously in a wee bit though, in case you were starting to panic that I lost my voice or marbles or something. LOL

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Loki
Are all so-called heathens, Asatruars, etc directionless hippies who hail from the dregs of society?

I think using Asatru and hippie in the same breath is an oxymoron......

Is heathenry merely a cover for racism?

Sometimes, there are neo-Nazi organisations that use heathenry for cover, then again there are Christians who seriously believe Jesus wasn’t Jewish he was in fact a blonde haired, blue eyed super Aryan.

Race hate needs no religious justification.

Most heathens seem to be atheists anyway.

Some, maybe, not most, the ethical can be separated from the theological, then again is that exclusive to heathens?

I mean, you can't seriously believe that those deities really exist!

I don’t subscribe to anthropomorphic interpretations of Gods, my Nietzsche is rusty but I believe he would have considered that view Apollonian, citing Homer as a classic example of an egotistical illusion. I see the divine as transcendent and largely remote from our ordinary operative mode of existence. I consider man an evolved ape who, by some agency, was “raised up”.

We have the ability to “tap in” to the undercurrents and energies that power the cosmos we live within. We have the ability, like Odin who acquired the mead of inspiration or Finn who understood that the Salmon of Wisdom lies within to understand and contemplate creation, lineage and purpose. We have the ability to settle, within ourselves, the biggest conflict any man faces, the internal one between himself and himself, this is, for me, the lesson that Odin teaches us.

The gift of the Gods (take the last word however you like) was to understand this.

Why not go all the way and become true rationalists.

I already have, Descartes was probably one of the finest rational minds aiding the development of the scientific process, dividing the world into the physical and the res cogitens (thought/mind). The man of reason surely accepts that science explains the “natural world” the world of physics very well indeed, but understands further that the realm of physics is but one realm.

I think a rational mind also understand inspiration and understands what has inspired our poetry, our music, all our higher forms of art and what they are appealing to.

[Nodens]

might be insane or under demonic influence I think.

Don't knock it till you've tried it.

[Brynhild]

1) Are all so-called heathens, Asatruars, etc directionless hippies who hail from the dregs of society?

Well, since I grew up in one of the more lower class suburbs of Sydney, I guess the answer to that we be a resounding Yes! As for flower power, I was - and still am - one of the flower children born in the 60s. I still wear the outrageous clothes and listen to the outrageous music. No shame in my game!

2) Is heathenry merely a cover for racism?

But of course it is! Didn't the National Socialist movement of the 30s teach us anything?

3) Most heathens seem to be atheists anyway. I mean, you can't seriously believe that those deities really exist! Why not go all the way and become true rationalists.

Just call me Sybil - after all, I answer to about five or more of my various personalities on any given day!