Lost: The European Union's Political Animal

[Temujin]

I would dare say that Lithuania hasn't been under western influence 1795....
of course the cultural differences between east and west only depended after the occupation, since soviet union went to a completely different direction compared to the west.

I cannot think of any western influence Lithuanians experienced between Mindaugas coronation (or beyond) and 1795 other than Catholisism and everything that came with it. Some things were borrowed from Teutonic knights and the Prussians, but there was little western influence on Lithuanian society throughout their entire history. Not to the same extent as other European countries despite many cities were subject to the Magderburg Law.

well that's really the point, there were a lot of great things happening in 2012 as well but 2012 was the year a couple of very important events took place (like the Venckiene paedophilia story).

I don't know about the events you are referring to. I cannot imagine a single paedophilia story can change the society. The paedophilia stories are discussed in western countries on a regular basis. Orphans were sexually exploited in orphanages. A ring of paedophiles uncovered in some countries etc.

sometimes, the judgemental and critical views stop all rationality, a slight problem some members of society tend to have, to be more precise, people residing in rural areas, with the lowest family income of up to 1,500 litas, the unemployed, people living off their pensions, blue collar workers, people of Polish descent and those favourable of the right-wing politics.

Many people migrate in western countries for better opportunities realising home was not as bad. The judgemental attitudes are often irrational.

[Hercus Monte]

I cannot think of any western influence Lithuanians experienced between Mindaugas coronation (or beyond) and 1795 other than Catholisism and everything that came with it. Some things were borrowed from Teutonic knights and the Prussians, but there was little western influence on Lithuanian society throughout their entire history. Not to the same extent as other European countries despite many cities were subject to the Magderburg Law.

you'd be surprised.
however the period between the world wars is more important, since lithuania minor played an important role smetonas' lithuania.

I don't know about the events you are referring to. I cannot imagine a single paedophilia story can change the society. The paedophilia stories are discussed in western countries on a regular basis. Orphans were sexually exploited in orphanages. A ring of paedophiles uncovered in some countries etc.

the entire country was divided. it was massive hysteria for 4 years.
wer're a small country, it doesn't take much to get us hipped up.

[Temujin]

you'd be surprised.

The culture and mentality of people evolved over a long period of time. Not to mention the history Lithuania became part of Lithuanian national identity. I can only think of Ukraine and Russia having less western influence than Lithuania. But okay, amuse me.

[lI]

Okay, amuse me.

Oh boy, where do I even start... I think we already talked about it with RussiaPrussia a while ago

I cannot think of any western influence Lithuanians experienced between Mindaugas coronation (or beyond) and 1795 other than Catholisism and everything that came with it. Some things were borrowed from Teutonic knights and the Prussians, but there was little western influence on Lithuanian society throughout their entire history. Not to the same extent as other European countries despite many cities were subject to the Magderburg Law.

How about the local folk singing types having been almost entirely replaced by the Western European style in 16th century among Samogitians and making a big impact on Aukstaitians too (although in Aukstaitija the local types managed to remain in parallel).
How about nearly all folk dance tunes being Western? Polkas, Cadrilles, Waltzes, Ländlers... while Russian Karobushkas are very unpopular. I mean stuff like this, for all that matters, it could be Portugal, Georgia, Turkey or whatever - to me it is utterly and completely alien and exotic. Same about this.
None of it was related to Catholicism.

How about the cuisine? I look at this thread and nearly all dishes I see are utterly and completely unimpressive - they're well known in Lithuania too. Even Lithuania's national dish Cepelinai is nothing original:
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1144348

The bottom line is: saying that Lithuania has little Western influence in comparison to Central European countries is one thing and you may very well be right with that one. Then again Lithuania isn't usually considered a Central European country.
However, saying that there was no Western influence since Mindaugas' times is something else altogether and completely off the mark. I think that you are forgetting that a large part of Lithuanians lived in what is not a present day Lithuania. The influences usually came through them.

P.S. I'm pretty sure the ethnicity field bellow your profile said "Russian" a while ago. Those sneaky Lithuanians, eh? Well, it ain't Lithuanians who are changing their nicks like socks here

[Temujin]

Oh boy, where do I even start... I think we already talked about it with RussiaPrussia a while ago

I don't know what you have been through with RussiaPrussia. Do you want talk about it?

How about the local folk singing types having been almost entirely replaced by the Western European style in 16th century among Samogitians and making a big impact on Aukstaitians too (although in Aukstaitija the local types managed to remain in parallel).

The folk songs I listened to in this section don't sound western in my ears.

How about nearly all folk dance tunes being Western? Polkas, Cadrilles, Waltzes, Ländlers... while Russian Karobushkas are very unpopular. I mean stuff like this, for all that matters, it could be Portugal, Georgia, Turkey or whatever - to me it is utterly and completely alien and exotic. Same about this.
None of it was related to Catholicism.

Which countries don't have the Polkas, Waltzes and Cadrilles ? Even non-European Russia has them.

How about cuisine? I look at this thread and nearly all dishes I see are utterly and completely unimpressive - they're well known in Lithuania too. Even Lithuania's national dish Cepelinai is nothing original:
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1144348

What's western in Lithuanian cuisine? Potatos are truly western , I guess.

The bottom line is that saying that Lithuania has little Western influence in comparison to Central European countries is one thing and you may very well be right with that one. Then again Lithuania isn't usually considered a Central European country.

Exactly what I wrote. Lithuania has lesser western influence than central European countries.

However, saying that there was no Western influence since Mindaugas' times is something else altogether and completely off the mark. I think that you are forgetting that a large part of Lithuanians lived in what is not a present day Lithuania. The influences usually came through them.

I mentioned catholicism and contacts with Teutonic Knight and later eastern Prussians. I never wrote Lithuania had lesser western influence than Russia. Many Russians don't consider themselves as Europeans anyway. So, there is no point comparing Russia and Lithuania. However, Lithuania had the least western influence in comparison to most European countries including neighbouring Latvia and Estonia without exaggeration. You should know this better.

P.S. I'm pretty sure the ethnicity field bellow your profile said "Russian" a while ago. Those sneaky Lithuanians, eh? Well, it ain't Lithuanians who are changing their nicks like socks here

I never had 'Russian' in my profile. You are mixing me up with somebody else.

[Hercus Monte]

How about cuisine? I look at this thread and nearly all dishes I see are utterly and completely unimpressive - they're well known in Lithuania too. Even Lithuania's national dish Cepelinai is nothing original:
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1144348

Cepelinai, kugelis, vėdarai, balandėliai, spirgučiai, šakotis, žemaičių blynai etc. If I didn't know any better I would have thought it's lithuanian...

I should also add that high cultural traditions are also fairly western, all architecture(not surprising since almost everything was designed by Italian, French, German etc. architects) art. we even had opera before London or Paris did.

[Temujin]

I should also add that high cultural traditions are also fairly western, all architecture(not surprising since almost everything was designed by Italian, French, German etc. architects) art. we even had opera before London or Paris did.

Gothical and neo-Gothical architectural style came with Catholicism. St Petersburg is nicknamed as Venice of the north. It's a very western for the Russian cities.

Most Lithuanians didn't live in the cities till 1920s anyway. Other ethnicities were the majority in Kaunas and Vilnius who planned and built the cities. Klaipeda was built by eastern Prussians, for example.

So, young generation Lithuanians want to be seen more western than they are? That's interesting.

[Hercus Monte]

Gothical and neo-Gothical style of building came with Catholicism. St Petersburg is nicknamed as Venice of the north. It's a very western for the Russian cities.

is that not western?
talking of S. Petersburg, I thing we both know why it's more western than the rest of Russia.

Most Lithuanians didn't live in the cities till 1920s anyway. Other ethnicities were the majority in Kaunas and Vilnius who planned and built the cities. Klaipeda was built by eastern Prussians, for example.

about 80% to be more precise(not counting prussians), of modern day lithuanians come out of villages.

talking of prussians, there is a reason why I mentioned Lithuania minor since it played a huge part in the formation of our national contentiousness.

So, young generation Lithuanians want to be seen more western than they are? That's interesting.

not really a big concern to me, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. you said that the western influence is negligible, I just wanted to point out that it's noticeable.

[lI]

So, young generation Lithuanians want to be seen more western than they are? That's interesting.

So, young generation Slavs fail to notice the difference between: "Lithuanians have not experienced any western influence between Mindaugas coronation (or beyond) and 1795 other than Catholisism and everything that came with it." and "only Ukraine and Russia have less western influence than Lithuania"? That's interesting. Does Belarus have more then?

[Temujin]

is that not western?
talking of S. Petersburg, I thing we both know why it's more western than the rest of Russia.

Western or not western was not in the discussion. It was rather the degree of western influence in comparison to other countries. Russia is excluded.

not really a big concern to me, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. you said that the western influence is negligible, I just wanted to point out that it's noticeable.

You misunderstood me. I didn't write or mean that the western influence was negligible in Lithuania but rather less than in most European countries including central and former eastern block countries which is true. Some of you seemed to be touched by the fact. You are not sure about yourself?