View Poll Results: Do modern Macedonians have some Ancient Macedonian ancestry?

Voters
129. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    76 58.91%
  • No

    53 41.09%
Page 118 of 148 FirstFirst ... 1868108114115116117118119120121122128 ... LastLast
Results 1,171 to 1,180 of 1476

Thread: Do modern Macedonians have some Ancient Macedonian ancestry?

  1. #1171
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Vojnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Online
    02-16-2024 @ 09:25 PM
    Location
    South land of the Holy Spirit (Australia)
    Meta-Ethnicity
    South Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian Slav
    Ancestry
    Lerin and Bitola region
    Country
    Australia
    Y-DNA
    I2a1b
    mtDNA
    U4c1
    Hero
    Jesus Christ, Saint Paul, Saint Peter, Saint John, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr
    Religion
    Christian
    Gender
    Posts
    11,502
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 7,437
    Given: 5,645

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    Interesting that everybody can make their own maps and pass them as "facts". What is the language of the inscriptions found in Ancient Macedonia kiddo?

    What language is this?

    And Indians can speak and write in English. So they are pure Englishmen are they?

  2. #1172
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Vojnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Online
    02-16-2024 @ 09:25 PM
    Location
    South land of the Holy Spirit (Australia)
    Meta-Ethnicity
    South Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian Slav
    Ancestry
    Lerin and Bitola region
    Country
    Australia
    Y-DNA
    I2a1b
    mtDNA
    U4c1
    Hero
    Jesus Christ, Saint Paul, Saint Peter, Saint John, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr
    Religion
    Christian
    Gender
    Posts
    11,502
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 7,437
    Given: 5,645

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    What's the point of feeling a proud Bulgar...



    ...while pretending to be Macedonian, when we all know that you are an Australopitheki after all...
    That guy is a Cossack i believe. At least that's the pic that came up on Google images when i searched it.

    There's no pretending to be Macedonian here mate. It's what my grandparents called themselves, and the land they were born. They were told by their mothers and fathers that they are Macedonians. This is how it works.

    Now tell me, are your ancestors Albanians, Turks, Macedonians or Gypsies? Because they sure weren't 'Greek'.

  3. #1173
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Last Online
    05-14-2020 @ 11:00 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Country
    Turkey
    Taxonomy
    Pontid
    Gender
    Posts
    336
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 246
    Given: 181

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    i think yes

  4. #1174
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Vojnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Online
    02-16-2024 @ 09:25 PM
    Location
    South land of the Holy Spirit (Australia)
    Meta-Ethnicity
    South Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian Slav
    Ancestry
    Lerin and Bitola region
    Country
    Australia
    Y-DNA
    I2a1b
    mtDNA
    U4c1
    Hero
    Jesus Christ, Saint Paul, Saint Peter, Saint John, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr
    Religion
    Christian
    Gender
    Posts
    11,502
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 7,437
    Given: 5,645

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    There was no significant Latin influence in Macedonia you moron. Have you checked the Jirecek line at all???

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jirecek_line



    Macedonia had at least one Illyrian tribe, the Lyncestians, since the antiquity, and of course the Bryges were originally Lusatians...

    Pseudosience is your middle name...
    Macedonia was part of the Roman empire for centuries. Official language of the Roman empire was Latin. To say there was no significant latinisation on the territory of Macedonia is ridiculous.

    Provincia Macedoniae:


  5. #1175
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian
    Country
    Macedonia
    Gender
    Posts
    2,740
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,998
    Given: 1,604

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vojnik View Post
    Macedonia was part of the Roman empire for centuries. Official language of the Roman empire was Latin. To say there was no significant latinisation on the territory of Macedonia is ridiculous.

    Provincia Macedoniae:

    Don't take the guy for serious, he obviously has some mental problems...

    He comes up with the Jirecek line as if somehow, south of that line was god forbidden for non Greeks to settle and live, when in fact, all what Jirecek line represents is the written language on stones, inscriptions and administration.

    While the predominance of the Coine Greek is without doubt, there were many Roman colonies and colonists who used the Latin language and non-Greek tribes who never were really Hellenized, apart from the elites who lived in the cities.

    The majority of the Barbarians as have been called by the Greeks, Macedonians too for that matter, apart from the ruling elites, didn't live in the cities.

    Intact Roman Inscription from Marcus Aurelius' Rule Found in Ancient Thracian City Kabyle in Southeast Bulgaria:



    Stele with a knight and Latin inscription, Drama, Macedonia, Greece. Roman civilisation. Drama, Archaeological Museum:


  6. #1176
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian
    Country
    Macedonia
    Gender
    Posts
    2,740
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,998
    Given: 1,604

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Btw, nice post on Quora by a guy who knows his stuff:

    Source:

    Who did the ancient Macedonians say they were descended from?

    It would depend on which Macedonians you asked, and when. Macedonia’s relationship with the rest of the Greek world was complicated… very complicated.

    Macedon was culturally distinctive. The strong monarchy, the survival of very archaic religious practices and polygamy are all pretty unique to Macedonia. However — or more likely because of that distinctiveness — upper-class Macedon worked very hard at proving its Hellenic credentials. The ruling dynasty claimed to be descendants of the royal family of Argos. Alexander I (who also nicknamed himself “Philhellenos”, “the lover of Greeks”) essentially sued to get himself admitted to the Olympic games as a Greek on the basis of his Argive descent. The Argive story might or might not reflect a real historical truth — but it also illustrates the persistent efforts of the Macedonian upper class to be accepted as Greeks by the rest of the Greek world.

    Farther down the social scale, though, the picture is more complicated. Ordinary Macedonians were not unambiguously “Greek.” Even Isocrates — an ardently pro-Macedonian politician — will say that Macedonian king Amyntas III

    alone among the Hellenes claimed to rule over a people not of kindred race

    and that

    the Hellenes were not accustomed to put up with monarchies, while the rest [ie, the Macedonians] were unable to order their life aright without such a form of government

    Isocrates, Philip

    The kingdom of Macedonia included several different population groups, including Hellenes from the rest of the Greek world but also Illyrians, Thracians and Paeonians. Intermarriage was common — Philip’s mother, for example, was Illyrian; one of his seven wives was Illyrian, and another was Thracian. Macedonian personal names include solidly Greek names (Alexandros, Phillipos) and definitely alien ones (Sabbataras, Zeisalbis, Drohlou)… though the Greek ones cluster at the top of the social scale, and thus in the history books.

    Scholars are divided on whether or not ordinary Macedonians once had their own language, or if they always spoke some version Greek. After Alexander’s time Greek seems to have been the primary language, but there remained a lot of uniquely Macedonian words in circulation. It sounds a lot like what we know happened in neighboring Thrace and Illyria: a Greekified upper class ruling over a rural population that included very different languages and cultural touchstones. A country with almost no conventional Greek poleis, run largely by a rural nobility presiding over serf-like peasants, few of whom were closely connected to Hellenism as conventionally understood.

    In many ways it was an excellent school for what the Hellenistic world created by Alexander would look like.

    So, if you asked a Macedonian for an origin story, a lot would depend on who you asked. The mythological figure Makednos*, who gave his name the people, gets several contradictory backstories. Sometimes he’s a son of Aeolus, which might indicate a connection to the Aeolian Greeks. However sometimes he’s descended from the daughter of Deucalion (the Greek Noah) and thus not, technically, a “Hellene” at all, since the Hellenes claimed descent from Deucalion’s son Hellen — this a good mythological way of indicating a looser kind of cultural kinship. Yet another story (circulated a bit later) makes him a son of Lycaon, king of Arcadia — and, mythologically, a pre-Hellenic inhabitant of central Greece.** It this sounds confusing, it is — and it’s not clear that there really was one widely accepted story. ***

    There’s only one well documented story about Macedonian origins. And — no surprise — it’s pretty ambiguous. Herodotus tells it like this:

    From Argos fled to the Illyrians three brothers of the descendants of Temenus, Gauanes, Aeropus, and Perdiccas; and passing over from the Illyrians into the upper parts of Macedonia they came to the city of Lebaia. There they became farm servants for pay in the household of the king, one pasturing horses, the second oxen, and the youngest of them, Perdiccas, the smaller kinds of cattle; for in ancient times even those who were 'rulers over men’ were poor in money, and not the common people only.

    The queen cooked for them their food herself. And whenever she baked, the loaf of the boy their servant, namely Perdiccas, became double as large as by nature it should be. When this happened constantly in the same manner, she told it to her husband, and he understood that this was a portent and tended to something great. He summoned the farm-servants, and ordered them to depart out of his land. They replied that it was right that before they went forth they should receive the wages which were due.

    Now it chanced that the sun was shining into the house down through the opening which received the smoke, and the king when he heard about the wages said, being inspired by a divine power: "I pay you then this for wages, and it is such as you deserve," pointing to the sunlight.

    Gauanes and Aeropus, the elder brothers, stood struck with amazement when they heard this, but the boy, who happened to have in his hand a knife, said: "We accept, oh king, that which you gave", and he traced a line with his knife round the sunlight on the floor of the house, and having traced the line round he thrice drew of the sunlight into his bosom, and after that he departed both himself and his fellows….

    So the brothers, having come to another region of Macedonia, took up their dwelling near the gardens of Midas the son of Gordias, where roses grow wild which have each one sixty petals and excel all others in perfume. [...] Above the gardens is situated a mountain called Bermion, which is inaccessible because of the cold. Having taken possession of that region, they made this their starting-point, and proceeded to subdue the rest of Macedonia.

    Many modern scholars see this as a thin Greek wrapper over an older Paeonian or Thracian solar-god myth. The roses (one of the unique Macedonian words we know of is ἄβαγνα, a rose) and the mention of Midas may be a muddy reference to the Bryges, who lived in what later became Macedonia before some of them moved to Phrygia in modern Turkey. The primary legacy of the story is the sunburst-in-circle device which became the emblem of the Macedonian royal family.



    The Macedonian sunburst

    TLDR: it’s not obvious that Macedonians were a single people in the contemporary nationalist sense at all. Outside the royal family — who had reasons of their own for emphasizing Greek roots, true or not — there was not a single, simple, universally agreed-on definition of who was a Macedonian, what language or customs that entailed.

    “It’s complicated.”

    PS At last glance the wiki page actually does .a pretty good job covering the complexities of the topic, on days when it’s not being pulled back and forth by competing claims by modern Greek and Macedonian nationalists. It’s worth pointing out that all of the written sources are (ancient) Greek - as far as we know Macedonian, if it was a distinct language, was never written down.

    * It’s symbolic that modern linguists aren’t really sure how to derive “Makednos” from a Greek root. It might be from μηκεδανός… or it might not.

    ** Arcadia preserved the reputation being “pre-Greek” or at least “primitive” into historic times; the festival associated with Lycaon was rumored in ancient times to have involved human sacrifices. Arcadians were often described as Pelasgians, the pre-Hellenic inhabitants of Greece — though, to be fair, the same is true of Athenians.

    Some modern scholars see “Pelasgian” as code for “Mycenaean”, and there are some interesting connections between Macedonian culture and the archaic Mycenaean version (eg, tholos tombs). Argos — the putative Macedonian mother-city — is deeply connected with Mycenaean tradition. However no Linear B writings have ever been found in Macedonia.

    *** There’s also a version which has Makednos descending from the Egyptian god Osiris. This is almost certainly something made up by the Ptolemies as a way of connecting themselves with Egyptian tradition. Interestingly in this version the linkage goes through Lycaon, who stands in for the minor Egyptian god Wepwawet who had a wolf’s head — Lycaon is, mythologically, connected with werewolves.

  7. #1177
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian
    Country
    Macedonia
    Gender
    Posts
    2,740
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,998
    Given: 1,604

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    You can stick to pseudoscience here, or you can bring up DNA evidence. This shit ain't anthropology dear, its' taxonomy. You have no fucking idea of what you are talking about.
    Anthropology: the study of human biological and physiological characteristics and their evolution.

    Taxonomy is a part of Anthropology you moron.

  8. #1178
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Crn Volk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Online
    @
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian
    Country
    Macedonia
    Taxonomy
    Pontid-CM
    Hero
    Julius Evola
    Religion
    Orthodox
    Gender
    Posts
    14,812
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 6,157
    Given: 6,705

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    What's the point of feeling a proud Bulgar...



    ...while pretending to be Macedonian, when we all know that you are an Australopitheki after all...
    Says Mr Whiff of Bulgarian, while claiming to be Greek.

  9. #1179
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:19 PM
    Location
    The Apricity
    Meta-Ethnicity
    European
    Ethnicity
    Southern Greek
    Ancestry
    Southern Greece
    Country
    Greece
    Taxonomy
    Modern human with neanderthal admixture
    Gender
    Posts
    12,955
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 10,720
    Given: 25,836

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Good one:
    “Now that the wars are coming to an end, I wish you to prosper in peace. May all mortals from now on live like one people in concord and for mutual advancement. Consider the world as your country, with laws common to all and where the best will govern irrespective of tribe. I do not distinguish among men, as the narrow-minded do, both among Greeks and Barbarians. I am not interested in the descendance of the citizens or their racial origins. I classify them using one criterion: their virtue. For me every virtuous foreigner is a Greek and every evil Greek worse than a Barbarian. If differences ever develop between you never have recourse to arms, but solve them peacefully. If necessary, I should be your arbitrator.”

  10. #1180
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Crn Volk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Online
    @
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian
    Country
    Macedonia
    Taxonomy
    Pontid-CM
    Hero
    Julius Evola
    Religion
    Orthodox
    Gender
    Posts
    14,812
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 6,157
    Given: 6,705

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Cute, but then this,


    "... not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honors, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave" - Demosthenes, Third Philippic, 31.

Page 118 of 148 FirstFirst ... 1868108114115116117118119120121122128 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 94
    Last Post: 07-05-2023, 05:56 PM
  2. Germanic ancestry in modern Hungary
    By xajapa in forum Magyarország
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-22-2021, 08:05 PM
  3. Replies: 69
    Last Post: 04-01-2014, 06:42 PM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-09-2013, 06:32 AM
  5. Ancient Paeonia and the Macedonians
    By Crn Volk in forum Северна Македонија
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-06-2013, 09:41 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •