View Poll Results: Which are closer?

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  • Germans

    121 67.60%
  • Iberians

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Thread: The Irish are closer to Germans or to Iberians?

  1. #721
    Veteran Member Grace O'Malley's Avatar
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    Well then how do you explain the Flynn Effect where there is the trend of rising IQ scores over time?



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

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    Veteran Member Ibericus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    Well then how do you explain the Flynn Effect where there is the trend of rising IQ scores over time?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
    Better nutrition and liviing conditions, just like the rising in height.

  3. #723
    Smile, you've been Godwined! Melki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enflamme View Post
    Intelligence is something other than knowledge.

    Example: I know people who have had difficulties in school (difficulties reading, no real culture, difficulty for mathematics) and some have passed the IQ test: for those I know, they have between 100 and 108 of IQ .

    I know a person who was in SEGPA (special class for people with academic difficulties) and who got 112 of IQ; he does not really have a big "culture", he does not really read often, and so on.

    The IQ test is not based on your knowledge, but on logic.

    If you've read a lot of books, that you know a lot of things does not mean you'll have high IQ, like dont reading books and having no a big culture, do not have a hight level in mathematics, misunderstand the grammar rules indicate that you have a low IQ.

    So you have to separate things.
    I think your right, IQ tests are about pure logics, not raw intelligence.
    If you were familiar with developmental toys, like this, as a toddler...



    ...then you are more likely to get higher IQ scores later, but it won't make you the new Albert Einstein.

    As for PISA test, it's just a method for evaluating teaching methods at school.
    Some Nordic countries value non-authoritarian, intuitive learning, creativity, self-fulfilment, personal growth and understanding, whilst old academic countries like France insist too much on by-the-book teaching methods, off-by-heart learning and poetry recital (a waste of time) and punishment in case of failure. Nothing good can come out of that system.

    As for Eas-Asian countries, they are not good examples to follow. Their students are known for working hard from dawn to dusk with almost no free time.

  4. #724
    Smile, you've been Godwined! Melki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enflamme View Post
    Intelligence is something other than knowledge.

    Example: I know people who have had difficulties in school (difficulties reading, no real culture, difficulty for mathematics) and some have passed the IQ test: for those I know, they have between 100 and 108 of IQ .

    I know a person who was in SEGPA (special class for people with academic difficulties) and who got 112 of IQ; he does not really have a big "culture", he does not really read often, and so on.

    The IQ test is not based on your knowledge, but on logic.

    If you've read a lot of books, that you know a lot of things does not mean you'll have high IQ, like dont reading books and having no a big culture, do not have a hight level in mathematics, misunderstand the grammar rules indicate that you have a low IQ.

    So you have to separate things.
    I think you're right, IQ tests are about pure logics, not raw intelligence.
    If you were familiar with developmental toys, like this, as a toddler...



    ...then you are more likely to get higher IQ scores later, but it won't make you the new Albert Einstein.

    As for PISA test, it's just a method for evaluating teaching methods at school.
    Some Nordic countries value non-authoritarian, intuitive learning, creativity, self-fulfilment, personal growth and understanding, whilst old academic countries like France insist too much on by-the-book teaching methods, off-by-heart learning and poetry recital (science with no conscience; a waste of time) and punishment in case of failure. Nothing good can come out of that system.

    As for Eas-Asian countries, they are not good examples to follow. Their students are known for working hard from dawn to dusk with almost no free time.
    Last edited by Melki; 07-17-2017 at 03:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melki View Post
    I think your right, IQ tests are about pure logics, not raw intelligence.
    If you were familiar with developmental toys, like this, as a toddler...



    ...then you are more likely to get higher IQ scores later, but it won't make you the new Albert Einstein.

    As for PISA test, it's just a method for evaluating teaching methods at school.
    Some Nordic countries value non-authoritarian, intuitive learning, creativity, self-fulfilment, personal growth and understanding, whilst old academic countries like France insist too much on by-the-book teaching methods, off-by-heart learning and poetry recital (a waste of time) and punishment in case of failure. Nothing good can come out of that system.

    As for Eas-Asian countries, they are not good examples to follow. Their students are known for working hard from dawn to dusk with almost no free time.
    If you have a QI of 100 does not mean that you will know a lot of things, you can retain a lot of information, etc. We also have to work our brain...

    People are totally stupid if they think that having an IQ of 100 will make you a genius, a guy who as soon as he reads a book on a rather complicated subject, he will understand everything!

    Having an IQ of 100 could help you understand some things, some concepts but you still have to "work" your memory as much as your brain.

    If you have a duty to fill and you begin to work, your IQ of 100 is not going to make you understand everything at once in a short time ... it does not work as in the movie "Limitless" where when the guy swallows A pill, he understands everything, he manages to memorize things better, to remember things he has read before and to understand, and so on.



    J'écris en français car la flemmardise me prend :

    L'intelligence est la logique. L'intelligence permet de comprendre certaines choses, de comprendre certains concepts, mais cela fait pas de toi un génie, en tout cas à un certain niveau (un QI de 100 par exemple, ne va pas faire de toi un génie, surtout si tu ne veux rien apprendre). Et la mémorisation, par exemple, ne fait pas partie de l'intelligence ... tu pourrais avoir un QI de 60 et avoir une mémoire extraordinaire ; les deux doivent être séparés. Avoir des problèmes de mémoires peut aussi te bloquer dans l'apprentissage, pour autant cela ne démontre pas que tu as un faible QI, puisque la mémoire n'est pas liée à l'intelligence comme j'ai dit.

    D'ailleurs, qu'est-ce que la connaissance? Acquérir une connaissance c'est déjà avoir compris réellement les informations exposées: si tu te souviens d'un livre tu as lu il y a cinq jours, cela ne veut pas dire que tu l'as compris ! J'ai lu un livre de Montesquieu il y a quelque temps, je me souviens de certains passages que je pourrais te citer, mais je n'ai acquis aucune connaissance en rapport avec ce qui est dit dans ce livre! Je n'ai pas compris le livre en globalité (le sujet du livre). En gros, je l'ai lu (le premier volume), j'ai compris certains passages mais je n'ai pas compris l'essence du livre, ce que l'auteur souhaite "m'enseigner".

    C'est certainement mal expliqué, mais peu importe.
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  6. #726
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    The Irish are true or relatively "pure" Northwestern Europeans. They are not Germans(Central Europeans) nor are they Iberians(Southern Europeans)! For millenia, Irish underwent genetic and cultural isolation. Though there has been obviously mixing to a much smaller scale with populations of neighboring regions of Europe. Now to see, whom they are closest to.
    Let us examine the biogeographic genomic regions of the world that make up the Irish population of today and compare it to the German and Iberian populations.
    Genographic Project
    Irish = 79% (Great Britain and Ireland) + 11%(Scandinavia)+ 6%(Southern Europe) + 4% (Western & Central Europe)

    VS

    German = 42% (Western & Central Europe) + 16% (Eastern Europe) + 14% (Scandinavia) + 11% (Great Britain and Ireland) + 6% (Finland and Northern Siberia) + 6% (Southern Europe) + 5% (Jewish Diaspora)

    Iberian = 74% (Southern Europe) + 9% (Northern Africa) + 5% (Western & Central Europe) + 5% (Jewish Diaspora) + 4%(Asia Minor) + 2% (Great Britain and Ireland)

    Thus according to the National Geographic Genographic Project, we can say that the Irish are closer to Germans than to Iberians, nevertheless they are definitely not Germans either since their West & Central European biogeographic genomic component is still low.
    Last edited by Septentrion; 08-15-2017 at 03:12 AM.

  7. #727
    In Corpore Sardo Mens-Sarda's Avatar
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    Perhaps pre-IE Irish were closer to Iberians; when the Celts colonized the island they used to call it Iweriu which sounds similar to Iberia; the Greek explorers named it Ἰουερνία Iouerníā or Iérnē (written Ἰέρνη), the Romans "Hibernia"; in actual Irish language Ériu and Éire.

    Looking to a map of hair colors in Ireland we can see that the Celts arrived from south-east pushing westwards the original inabitants.

    Non Auro, Sed Ferro, Recuperanda Est Patria (Not by Gold, But by Iron, Is the Nation to be Recovered) - Marcus Furius Camillus (Roman General)

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    Veteran Member Grace O'Malley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mens-Sarda View Post
    Perhaps pre-IE Irish were closer to Iberians; when the Celts colonized the island they used to call it Iweriu which sounds similar to Iberia; the Greek explorers named it Ἰουερνία Iouerníā or Iérnē (written Ἰέρνη), the Romans "Hibernia"; in actual Irish language Ériu and Éire.

    Looking to a map of hair colors in Ireland we can see that the Celts arrived from south-east pushing westwards the original inabitants.

    That map on hair colour is BS. There has been no Ireland wide hair colour study ever. Even just looking at GAA players from those areas would show that it is rubbish. The Irish whether they are from the east or the west don't show any differences. Ireland is a small island after all and we know that most Irish genetics are due to Bronze Age Bell Beakers and it hasn't changed much since then so Irish are primarily a Bronze Age Bell Beaker population.

    These people are all west coast irish.

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=G...Zk5iYGl7m9e2M:

    https://www.google.com.au/search?biw...k1.bwpGxee5xNY

    Irish people are extreme northwest europeans.

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    Veteran Member Grace O'Malley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    That map on hair colour is BS. There has been no Ireland wide hair colour study ever. Even just looking at GAA players from those areas would show that it is rubbish. The Irish whether they are from the east or the west don't show any differences. Ireland is a small island after all and we know that most Irish genetics are due to Bronze Age Bell Beakers and it hasn't changed much since then so Irish are primarily a Bronze Age Bell Beaker population.

    These people are all west coast irish.

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=G...Zk5iYGl7m9e2M:

    https://www.google.com.au/search?biw...k1.bwpGxee5xNY

    Irish people are extreme northwest europeans.


    The Irish are their own people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mens-Sarda View Post
    Perhaps pre-IE Irish were closer to Iberians; when the Celts colonized the island they used to call it Iweriu which sounds similar to Iberia; the Greek explorers named it Ἰουερνία Iouerníā or Iérnē (written Ἰέρνη), the Romans "Hibernia"; in actual Irish language Ériu and Éire.

    Looking to a map of hair colors in Ireland we can see that the Celts arrived from south-east pushing westwards the original inabitants.

    That map is irrelevant now and means absolutely nothing. Recent hair colour map shows that Western part of the island of Ireland to have the high percentage for red hair and blue eyes.

    Red hair map below, shows Western Ireland with a high percentage. What do you have have to say?
    http://s3.amazonaws.com/media.wbur.o...edhead-map.jpg

    Light hair map shows Ireland definitely not within the dark quadrant of Europe, thus let us stop being irrelevant! Less than 3% of the Irish have black hair.
    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-...sm=12&fit=max&

    Blue eyes map of Great Britain and Ireland, shows Western Ireland to have the second highest frequency for blue eyes in the British Isles!! How is that closer to Iberia where less than 20% are blue-eyed.
    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...56_634x632.jpg


    There is absolutely no proof that the Irish were any closer to Iberians. 79% of the Irish ancestral genome comes from the people who were among the earliest settlers of Northern Europe after the early Holocene retreat of glaciers that covered that area. Irish are predominantly Northern European regardless of hair and eye colour.

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