Should Bulgaria leave the EU?

[Lemon Kush]

This thread got derailed from its original purpose

[Hàkon]

"foreign investment"

That's how you call "They sold their lands" nowadays...

Ja, das stimmt.

Six billions of investment meant the sale of state assets at a fraction of market price to western corporations which made many Bulgarian workers redundant, who will be forced going abroad in search of employment. I am speculating but I've seen it happening in other countries. Bulgaria gets some financial assistance from large economies in exchange of political allegiance. That's called 'tight economic integration with the EU'. The situation is such that Bulgarians don't want to leave their home country, while people in western Europe don't want seeing immigrants coming in masses.

You cannot argue your point without solid grounds (although your observations of events in other countries might be very accurate), as per the code of conduct regarding arguments and discussions, the burden of proof lays in the hands of the part making a positive; however, I will adress your speculations anyways.

When in the absence of documents testifying how the investments were made, one should rather make unbiased and realistic assumptions, if one is to assume at all that is; so, it is more likely, and wise to assume, that the investments were allocated to various different areas; naturally, the purchase of state-owned land being one of the ways it possibly translated, and the investment in Bulgarian industries being another.

Furthermore, when engaging in the act of trading as the seller in a free market, it is your responsibility to, by any legal means, persuade potential buyers that your products, whatever those may be, are worth a certain amount of money; the bottom line being that it is the sellers choice to sell.

Now of course, you are entitled to your own opinions, but the fact is that a product's worth on the market is determined by the market; there is no such thing as selling at a fraction of the market price if both ends of a deal agree to seal it as they did, when it's free of illegalities. Though, I fully understand how one could believe the opposite.

Those who are burden are the gypsies, yet better for them to be a burden of a powerful economy like France, UK, Italy than a poor one like Bulgaria.

Although I am a firm supporter of the notion that the better should help the lesser, within reason, putting the the resposibility of solving Bulgaria's problems into the hands of other countries is not only unjust, lazy and disrespectful, but more importantly it is counterproductive; I am sure we agree that if nothing is learned it will increase the risk of a recurrance of similar problems.

Besides, you might not view the gypsies as Bulgarians, but that is one of the places they are currently coming from; Bulgarians on paper at least.

[Trun]

Although I am a firm supporter of the notion that the better should help the lesser, within reason, putting the the resposibility of solving Bulgaria's problems into the hands of other countries is not only unjust, lazy and disrespectful, but more importantly it is counterproductive; I am sure we agree that if nothing is learned it will increase the risk of a recurrance of similar problems.

Besides, you might not view the gypsies as Bulgarians, but that is one of the places they are currently coming from; Bulgarians on paper at least.

Well, there are teachers and students; what students can't do, they ask the teachers.

[Hàkon]

Well, there are teachers and students; what students can't do, they ask the teachers.

Then the said students go on to try learning from the examples they have been granted, and do not, more or less, force their teachers to solve the problems for them. That is at least how schools work in Sweden.

[Trun]

Then the said students go on to try learning from the examples they have been granted, and do not, more or less, force their teachers to solve the problems for them. That is at least how schools work in Sweden.

But there aren't any examples given. Teachers can't solve the problems themselves. There are Bulgarian gypsies in very European country, and nobody can deal with them.

[robar]

Now of course, you are entitled to your own opinions, but the fact is that a product's worth on the market is determined by the market; there is no such thing as selling at a fraction of the market price if both ends of a deal agree to seal it as they did, when it's free of illegalities. Though, I fully understand how one could believe the opposite.

In this sense for example corruption doesn't exist- the agreed price is the market price

[00danieleinad00]

I AM ROMANIAN AND I SAID NO!!! Bulgaria in EUROPE!!! We have fought a lot against the Turks.
Bulgarians deserve it to be Europeans.

[ioan assen]

Cohesion Fund is from 2007:

For fuck sake, know your own history and how much you owe to the EU:

1988 - to adapt to the arrival of Greece (1981), Spain and Portugal (1986), the Structural Funds were integrated into an overarching cohesion policy, introducing key principles: •focusing on the poorest and most backward regions
•multi-annual programming
•strategic orientation of investments
•involvement of regional and local partners
http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/.../what/history/
The structural fund was pretty much invented for those 3 countries. 30ty years later all is forgotten. Its not a shock that the fake news are spreading as people have very little knowledge on their own history and the history of Europe.
Having said that, I love Portugal and Spain and Greece. Great states, but you have to have in mind that it wasn't long ago when you were in the position of Bulgaria, Romania, Poland etc.

[ioan assen]

By the way, who are those members who have voted for Bulgaria to live EU? I don't see any Bulgarian. It should be in the hands of Bulgarians to decide on such a thing. And I believe leaving would be the biggest mistake Bulgaria would ever make.

[Papastratosels26]

No, it's suicide to leaving EU.

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