Who were the Sumerians

[Proto-Shaman]

Aryan means iranian. So the theory is saying, if we take it to mean that race = language, the r1a ukranians sweep down and whip up the r1b iranians. The r1a sweeps into india and the r1b sweeps into all of europe, which is now completely full of r1b. All in a very short time span.

Ok lets check the R1b lineages in Asia:


Carriers of Rb1 with the highest frequencies are:

Bashkir Turks (Bashkortostan), southern Russia.
Balkar Turks (Kabardino-Balkaria), Caucasus.
Armenians (southern Caucasus).
Turkmen Turks, Turkmenistan.
Hazaragi Turks, Pakistan.
Ughur Turks, East Turkestan, China.
Altai Turks, East Turkestan, China.
Ferghana Turks, borderland between Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Usbekistan.
Kashgai Turks, southern Iran.
Unkwon Individuals, Turkey.

How does this fit into your Aryan invasion theory at all?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I just said that's NOT my theory, but there's something like 20% r1b in iran, and it has been greatly washed out since those times. The r1b in most of those tribes would have been picked up elsewhere in the first place, anyway.

So the theory would go that the r1b pours out of iran into anatolia, and ever west into europe where it overruns the entire area. Or alternately from some other place like ukraine but there's no evidence to say r1b has ever been big there. Some other "urheimat", initial homeland.

What I already said probably really happened is r1b came out from iberia after ice ace either wholly or mostly, the solutrean. Nordic types with I haplogroup would have been the gravettian around modern day greece.

[Melina]

They werent a Semitic people so what were they? And how would have they looked like?

http://realhistoryww.com/world_histo...mer_Iraq_1.htm

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/573176/Sumer

Some are shown with blue eyes.

Hmm it seemed like they didn't have eyelids...

[Benacer]

Hmm it seemed like they didn't have eyelids...

Looks like big eyes and unibrows were attractive then.

[Proto-Shaman]

I just said that's NOT my theory, but there's something like 20% r1b in iran, and it has been greatly washed out since those times. The r1b in most of those tribes would have been picked up elsewhere in the first place, anyway.

So the theory would go that the r1b pours out of iran into anatolia, and ever west into europe where it overruns the entire area. Or alternately from some other place like ukraine but there's no evidence to say r1b has ever been big there. Some other "urheimat", initial homeland.

What I already said probably really happened is r1b came out from iberia after ice ace either wholly or mostly, the solutrean. Nordic types with I haplogroup would have been the gravettian around modern day greece.

Of what kind of "Iranian" Rb1 are you actually talking about? I still did not get it...

[HolyMoon]

Craniometric studies on Sumerians established that they belonged mainly to the Eurafrican type(1) like modern-day Coastal North Africans. Add to this the fact that 'Ubaid originated from the PPNB culture and that both PPNB and its offshouts (i.e. Cardium and IVC cultures) were ruled by an Eurafrican elite(2) that carried Y-DNA E(3). Therefore, it seems quite likely that Proto-Sumerian was originally spoken by Natufians and was later spread by PPNB and its derivatives. It would make us North Africans the purest descendant of the Sumerians and their rightful heirs

• (1) THIS report on the human remains, found at Kish by the Field Museum and Oxford Expedition, is based on the material excavated in the old Sumerian palace at Ingharra (Eastern Kish) and at mound W, also in Eastern Kish, during the three seasons, 1923-24, 1924-25, 1925-26.
  -Report on the Human Remains Found at Kish, Page 1
  
• (1) In my own previous analysis I found one Armenoid and six others. There was also a fragmentary specimen in the first consignment which was too broken to be described, but which showed Armenoid affinities. Out of thirty-six crania from Kish only four can be described as Armenoid, the same number as showing some Armenoid traits. It is clear then that our evidence as far as it goes suggests, both on the evidence of figures and form, that the Armenoid race plays a small part in the population of ancient Kish. Seventeen appear to be of the Eurafrican type, thus forming nearly half the population, although some of these may have Mediterranean affinities, as the distinction in form is sometimes difficult and eleven belong to neither of these two types.
  -Report on the Human Remains Found at Kish, Page 76
  
• (2) Racial difference, too, may have divided the urban population. It was certainly mixed; the skeletal remains and figurines undoubtedly belong to several physically distinct types. At the bottom of the social scale came a primitive 'Australoid' stock; the thick lips and coarse nose of a little bronze statuette (Pl. XXIX) disclose at once the kinship of this group to the surviving aboriginal tribes of Southern India and the position which it, like its modern representatives occupied in the community. A higher type, long headed like that last, has been termed Eurafrican or even Mediterranean. It seems to approximate to one of the long-headed Sumerian types and the similarity is accentuated in the portrait statues (Pl. XXVIII) by the beard, shaven upper lip, and long hair done up in a bunbehind quite in Sumerian fashion. Thirdly, a brachycephalic Alpine or Armenoid type is representedas at Kish in Akkad. Finally, a signe skeleton and several clay figurines belong to undoubted Mongols or Mongoloids, the earliest dated examples of this racial type yet detected, but possibly post-Harrapan.
  -New Light on the Most Ancient East, Page 104
  
• (2) If we try to assess the problem in the perspective of indigenist and migrationist theories, both are in agreement that the origin of the Neolithic has a Mediterranean dimension that has its roots in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) of the Near East. The neolithic culture on the Adriatic and Sicilian coasts at 7000 cal BC is identified by Impressed Ware pottery. This culture spread westwards and agriculture (i.e., crops and livestock) reached the coasts of the Iberian Peninsula by the beginning of 6000 cal BC; in this region the culture was characterised by Cardial Ware pottery.
  -The Origins and Spread of Domestic Plants in Southwest Asia and Europe, Page 155
  
• (3)Cardium
  I3948...Croatia_Cardial_Neolithic...E1b1b1a1b1...M athieson et al. 2018
  I3947...Croatia_Cardial_Neolithic...C1a2...Mathies on et al. 2018
  IAM.4...Morocco_Cardial_Neolithic...E1b1b1b1...Fre gel et al. 2018
  IAM.5...Morocco_Cardial_Neolithic...E1b1b1b1...Fre gel et al. 2018
  TOR.5...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G...Fregel et al. 2018
  Ave01...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave02...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave03...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave04...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave05...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave06...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave07...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...E1b1b1a1b...Laca n et al. 2011
  
• (3)IVC
  I6549...Butkara_IA...J1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6550...Butkara_IA...J1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6891...Saidu_Sharif_IA...R1a1a1b...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S7721.E1.L1...Saidu_Sharif_IA...L1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S7718.E1.L1...Saidu_Sharif_IA...Q1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S7722.E1.L1...Saidu_Sharif_IA_o...R2a3a2b...Narasi mhan et al. 2018
  I8246...Aligrama_IA...G2a2a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I8245...Aligrama_IA...R2a3a2b2b1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6548...Barikot_IA...H1a1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I5396...Katelai_IA...J2a1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I5399...Katelai_IA...R2a3a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S10001.E1.L1...Loebanr_IA...L1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S10974.Y1.E1.L1...Loebanr_IA...L1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S8998.E1.L1...Loebanr_IA...R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b2b1a2... Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S8997.E1.L1...Loebanr_IA...R2a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6553...Loebanr_IA...C1b1a1a1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6555...Loebanr_IA...L1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I5400...Loebanr_IA...Q1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S7725.E1.L1...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S8191.E1.L1...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S8195.E1.L1...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S8194.E1.L1...Udegram_IA...H1a1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I3261...Udegram_IA...DE...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I1992...Udegram_IA...E1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6899...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6900...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I1985...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2a...Narasimhan et al. 2018

[Ice]

Most underrated ancient civilization..

[dududud]

Craniometric studies on Sumerians established that they belonged mainly to the Eurafrican type(1) like modern-day Coastal North Africans. Add to this the fact that 'Ubaid originated from the PPNB culture and that both PPNB and its offshouts (i.e. Cardium and IVC cultures) were ruled by an Eurafrican elite(2) that carried Y-DNA E(3). Therefore, it seems quite likely that Proto-Sumerian was originally spoken by Natufians and was later spread by PPNB and its derivatives. It would make us North Africans the purest descendant of the Sumerians and their rightful heirs

• (1) THIS report on the human remains, found at Kish by the Field Museum and Oxford Expedition, is based on the material excavated in the old Sumerian palace at Ingharra (Eastern Kish) and at mound W, also in Eastern Kish, during the three seasons, 1923-24, 1924-25, 1925-26.
  -Report on the Human Remains Found at Kish, Page 1
  
• (1) In my own previous analysis I found one Armenoid and six others. There was also a fragmentary specimen in the first consignment which was too broken to be described, but which showed Armenoid affinities. Out of thirty-six crania from Kish only four can be described as Armenoid, the same number as showing some Armenoid traits. It is clear then that our evidence as far as it goes suggests, both on the evidence of figures and form, that the Armenoid race plays a small part in the population of ancient Kish. Seventeen appear to be of the Eurafrican type, thus forming nearly half the population, although some of these may have Mediterranean affinities, as the distinction in form is sometimes difficult and eleven belong to neither of these two types.
  -Report on the Human Remains Found at Kish, Page 76
  
• (2) Racial difference, too, may have divided the urban population. It was certainly mixed; the skeletal remains and figurines undoubtedly belong to several physically distinct types. At the bottom of the social scale came a primitive 'Australoid' stock; the thick lips and coarse nose of a little bronze statuette (Pl. XXIX) disclose at once the kinship of this group to the surviving aboriginal tribes of Southern India and the position which it, like its modern representatives occupied in the community. A higher type, long headed like that last, has been termed Eurafrican or even Mediterranean. It seems to approximate to one of the long-headed Sumerian types and the similarity is accentuated in the portrait statues (Pl. XXVIII) by the beard, shaven upper lip, and long hair done up in a bunbehind quite in Sumerian fashion. Thirdly, a brachycephalic Alpine or Armenoid type is representedas at Kish in Akkad. Finally, a signe skeleton and several clay figurines belong to undoubted Mongols or Mongoloids, the earliest dated examples of this racial type yet detected, but possibly post-Harrapan.
  -New Light on the Most Ancient East, Page 104
  
• (2) If we try to assess the problem in the perspective of indigenist and migrationist theories, both are in agreement that the origin of the Neolithic has a Mediterranean dimension that has its roots in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) of the Near East. The neolithic culture on the Adriatic and Sicilian coasts at 7000 cal BC is identified by Impressed Ware pottery. This culture spread westwards and agriculture (i.e., crops and livestock) reached the coasts of the Iberian Peninsula by the beginning of 6000 cal BC; in this region the culture was characterised by Cardial Ware pottery.
  -The Origins and Spread of Domestic Plants in Southwest Asia and Europe, Page 155
  
• (3)Cardium
  I3948...Croatia_Cardial_Neolithic...E1b1b1a1b1...M athieson et al. 2018
  I3947...Croatia_Cardial_Neolithic...C1a2...Mathies on et al. 2018
  IAM.4...Morocco_Cardial_Neolithic...E1b1b1b1...Fre gel et al. 2018
  IAM.5...Morocco_Cardial_Neolithic...E1b1b1b1...Fre gel et al. 2018
  TOR.5...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G...Fregel et al. 2018
  Ave01...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave02...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave03...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave04...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave05...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave06...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...G2a...Lacan et al. 2011
  Ave07...Spain_Cardial_Neolithic...E1b1b1a1b...Laca n et al. 2011
  
• (3)IVC
  I6549...Butkara_IA...J1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6550...Butkara_IA...J1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6891...Saidu_Sharif_IA...R1a1a1b...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S7721.E1.L1...Saidu_Sharif_IA...L1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S7718.E1.L1...Saidu_Sharif_IA...Q1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S7722.E1.L1...Saidu_Sharif_IA_o...R2a3a2b...Narasi mhan et al. 2018
  I8246...Aligrama_IA...G2a2a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I8245...Aligrama_IA...R2a3a2b2b1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6548...Barikot_IA...H1a1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I5396...Katelai_IA...J2a1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I5399...Katelai_IA...R2a3a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S10001.E1.L1...Loebanr_IA...L1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S10974.Y1.E1.L1...Loebanr_IA...L1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S8998.E1.L1...Loebanr_IA...R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b2b1a2... Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S8997.E1.L1...Loebanr_IA...R2a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6553...Loebanr_IA...C1b1a1a1...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6555...Loebanr_IA...L1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I5400...Loebanr_IA...Q1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S7725.E1.L1...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S8191.E1.L1...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S8195.E1.L1...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  S8194.E1.L1...Udegram_IA...H1a1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I3261...Udegram_IA...DE...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I1992...Udegram_IA...E1a...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6899...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I6900...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2...Narasimhan et al. 2018
  I1985...Udegram_IA...E1b1b1b2a...Narasimhan et al. 2018

Not a genetic study, just old taxonomy. Do you have a dna sample of Sumerian? With a PCA.