The religious origins of Capitalism

[Hàkon]

... some elements of the capitalist thinking have a religious origin.

It should be seen as an attempt to deceive on my part, if I were to claim that my knowledge on the subjects of the origin of (modern) economics and the religious influences on the history of economics is enough to denounce what you are insisting on; however, I know for a fact that sensing a similarity of the kind you present does not prove a thing's origin, and I wonder if it is not more sensible to assume that these concepts you are referring to are in fact products of nature in the sense that these thoughts are what springs in a developing world when one wants to organize it?

What I mean to say and the question I want to instill is: might it not be that the notions you mention are in reality natural insights that have been put into practise in two (at times) communicating systems?

[Graham]

The Scots capitalists like Adam Smith & Carnegie of the 18th/19th century, were pretty close to Atheism & free thought. Brought about more enterprise.

[el22]

Even dogs have the idea of capitalism. If you throw them a bone, they will lick it for some time, and then "deposit" it in a hole, demonstrating their awareness about accumulated wealth. All elements of capitalism have existed long before the earliest religion.

[blogen]

It should be seen as an attempt to deceive on my part, if I were to claim that my knowledge on the subjects of the origin of (modern) economics and the religious influences on the history of economics is enough to denounce what you are insisting on; however, I know for a fact that sensing a similarity of the kind you present does not prove a thing's origin, and I wonder if it is not more sensible to assume that these concepts you are referring to are in fact products of nature in the sense that these thoughts are what springs in a developing world when one wants to organize it?

What I mean to say and the question I want to instill is: might it not be that the notions you mention are in reality natural insights that have been put into practise in two (at times) communicating systems?

All thoughts have an origin, first epiphany and the consequences. You may not separate the story of the environment from the story of the thought. Especially if the thought is new and original in the history.

[Oneeye]

1. The whole point of Balarte's post is to blame Jews for what he no doubt sees as the evil's of capitalism. Now you're blaming Jews for claiming capitalism when it's a Judeophobe linking he two not a Jew. He's trying to blame Jews when in fact it's his fellow Catholics that began modern capitalism.

I was referring to the OP's quotes. A couple of them are from Jews, however I was under the impression that Werner Sombart was Jewish, but it seems he wasn't. Regardless, the "Judeophobe" also has a strong dislike for Protestantism and, apparently, working diligently.

[Baluarte]

Sombart wasn't Jewish. Average ethnic German.

Him and Weber were the first ones to explain sociologically the origin of current economics.

[Baluarte]

Danielle Lindemann Comparing Marx and Weber

The only place where Marx appears to allow religion a principal, rather than secondary part is in
"On the Jewish Question."
Here, Marx defines religion as a particular mode of production (p. 85) and then specifically discusses the impact of Judaism in real life (this is the only religion he singles out). In thisdiscussion, Judaism seems to play a role similar to that played by Weber's Protestantism in the development of capitalism, although not via the work ethic path, but through the emphasis it lays on money (capital) and commerce. In this analysis, the Jewish "spirit", aided by Christianity, seems to play an important part in the development of modern capitalism (pp. 48,50, 52).

[Hess]

Weber's Protestant Work Ethic Theory of Capitalism, while an interesting and important analysis, should by no means be accepted as an unequivocally true fact of history. I personally find it more useful in explaining the posteriori reactions and attitudes toward Capitalism than its Origins.

Actually the first modern capitalists were the Catholic Knights Templar.

They are credited with being the first Modern Bankers but given their communitarian/collectivist lifestyle and beliefs, I think the label "Capitalist" is a stretch.

I knew I would see Judaism here somewhere.

I was referring to the OP's quotes. A couple of them are from Jews, however I was under the impression that Werner Sombart was Jewish, but it seems he wasn't. Regardless, the "Judeophobe" also has a strong dislike for Protestantism and, apparently, working diligently.

The notion that Capitalism (defined as a system of Free exchange, private property and ownership over the means of production, and a currency) is a "Jewish Invention" is an empirically false and theoretically unacceptable fallacy that can't seem to die no matter how many times it is refuted.

Judaism, like almost all other religions, is theoretically compatible with Capitalism, but that obviously doesn't make Capitalism Jewish.

[Baluarte]

Judaism, like almost all other religions, is theoretically compatible with Capitalism, but that obviously doesn't make Capitalism Jewish.

Point taken.
Perhaps I should readdress the topic to "the religious embodiement of Capitalism". In other words, what kind of doctrines and spiritual beliefs are in full comunion with the current economic model.

If you read back the first post, both Amintore Fanfani and Murray Wax find the compatibility that the Capitalist economic model has with both the Protestant and Jewish worldview, whereas it clashes with the Catholic one.

This point is then stressed even harder with Slezkine who argues that "Judaism is more Protestant than Protestantism".

I don't have the final judgement on this issue (reason I opened the thread to begin with), but it'd seem safe to agree that both doctrines have had a very important influence regarding contemporary socio-economics, or in other words, how people and property are understood and operate.

[Hess]

Point taken.
Perhaps I should readdress the topic to "the religious embodiement of Capitalism". In other words, what kind of doctrines and spiritual beliefs are in full comunion with the current economic model.

If you read back the first post, both Amintore Fanfani and Murray Wax find the compatibility that the Capitalist economic model has with both the Protestant and Jewish worldview, whereas it clashes with the Catholic one.

But is there really a single Catholic, Jewish, or Protestant worldview? Within all these religions, there are many sub-sects that differ from each other on important issues (ex. Maronite vs Western Catholicism). If Protestantism is mono-thematically compatible with Capitalism, how can we explain the Social Gospel movement in the US which was deeply Protestant and at the same time heavily anti-capitalistic?

I think these are complex issues with no short, simple answers.