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Thread: Celtic roots of Castilla and Portugal: Asturias

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giesta View Post
    Well... I think northen portuguese as more atlanto-mediterranid, and Algarve's portuguese only like mediterranids, without atlanto influences (no blue / green eyes. no blonde hair). But still white...
    I always thought this atlanto influences in northen were from Celtic ancestors.
    My Portuguese grandmother, despite having minor Sub-Saharan African ancestry from one of the colonies, can easily pass as Irish and looks very "Celtic". So it is definitely possible for Portuguese to look Celtic.

  2. #142
    Member luizceltic's Avatar
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    Portugal is the Asturias kingdom son

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    Quote Originally Posted by luizceltic View Post
    Portugal is the Asturias kingdom son
    Asturias kingdom changed its capital city and its name, so it would be more accurate saying Portugal is the kingdom of León son.
    But I take your point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo View Post
    Asturias kingdom changed its capital city and its name, so it would be more accurate saying Portugal is the kingdom of León son.
    But I take your point.
    Got it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giesta View Post
    I think celtic genetics are stronger in northen iberic. My 4 mother's granparents are northen portuguese immigrants for Brazil, and 3 had green eyes (one with blonde hair) and 1 had blue eyes (with brown hair).
    My mother has green eyes and very light brown hair. She is very lighter than my father with portuguese + franch + italian ancestors. Because of my father I have light brown eyes and brown hair. :T
    Even with a strong Iberian ancestry I have vary pale skin, and can not stand at the sun, cause I get very red.

    I do not understand why some think all Iberians are "brown" ¬¬
    Those light traits are also common in southern and eastern Iberians. The pigmentation differences between southern and northern Iberians are reduced to some very slightly higher incidence of blondism and light eyes in Northern Iberians compared to southern Iberians, but not that much as for this difference to be really noticeable.
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    You don't pass in Europe. Amerindian admixture is evident (castizo or harnizo)...

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    According Coon, Portugal is the most mediterranean country

    "Non-Mediterranean elements in the Portuguese population are rare and of little importance. A few Nordics are scattered throughout but are particularly concentrated in the north. Traces of Dinaric blood, as we have already seen, may likewise be found on the northern coast. Negroid blood, introduced into Portugal through the medium of freed slaves, has largely been absorbed. The liberated negroes settled mostly in the cities, where negroes from the Portuguese colonies are still to be seen in some numbers. The liberality of the Portuguese social attitude toward persons of different race has prevented the retention, as in Arabia and the United States, of a stigmatized negroid class. On the whole, the absorption of negroes by the Portuguese has had no appreciable effect on the racial position of the country. Portugal remains, as it has been since the days of the Muge shell-fish eaters, classic Mediterranean territory."


    "Portugal is, on the whole, fully as Mediterranean in race as is Spain and, perhaps, in some respects, it is more so. The chief differences between the two countries are: that the Portuguese are almost urn-iormly brunet in pigmentation and that there are no regions in Portugal in which brachycephaly is as important as in the Asturias and Galicia. In fact, Portugal contains some of the lowest cephalic index means on the continent of Europe."
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    Races of Europe

    "It can be shown that Sumerians who lived over five thousand years ago in Mesopotamia are almost identical in skull and face form with living Englishmen, and that predynastic Egyptian skulls can be matched both in a seventeenth century London plague pit, and in Neolithic cist-graves in Switzerland. Modern dolichocephalic whites or browns are very similar in head and face measurements and form. The Nordic race in the strict sense is merely a pigment phase of the Mediterranean. "

    "Let us turn to the seventeenth century, during which disasters of great magnitude took place in London, the chief of which was the great plague og 1666 A.D. Wholesale deaths which occurred during this century overcrowded the cemetaries, and resulted in the dumping of bodies into plague pits. Thus were formed the two large cranial series of Whitechapel and Moorfields, while a third, the Farringdon Street series, was obtained by the disposal of a cemetary to obtain building space.

    These three series are very similar to one another, although they are not identical; they, nevertheless, represent a single, clearly differentiated and reasonably homogeneous population. In all measurements, indices, and angles little difference can be found between the three hundred male crania of which these series are composed and the general series of Iron Age Keltic invaders of England. The resemblance is morphological as well as metrical; for the same, low, cylindrical vaults, the same exaggeratedly sloping foreheads, and the same pinched faces and narrow noses, typify this city population of seventeenth century Londoners. The continental Roman townsman, as exemplified by the Spitalfields series, seems to have died out utterly in Defoe's London. There may, as Morant suggests, have been social selection at play in the formation of these series; the upper classes may have disposed of their dead elsewhere; still the seventeenth century London type must have been predominantly Iron Age Nordic of the Keltic variety, and this in turn must have been ancestral to the modern Cockney. The arrival in London and other English towns of several thousands of French, Huguenots and of Dutchmen fleeing the cruelty of the Duke of Alva, took place for the most part too late in the seventeenth century for inclusion in the plague pits."


    And metrical average value of Med. and Nordic examples from "Photographic Supplement"

    Small Mediterraneans of Southern Europe: cephalic index-77,9. facial index-91,8. upper facial index-53,7
    Atlanto-Mediterraneans from Southwestern Europe: cephalic index-76,1. facial index-91,9. upper facial index- 54,7
    Blue-Eyed Atlanto-Mediterraneans: cephalic index-75,1. facial index-89,6. upper facial index-52,6
    The Mediterranean Reëmergence in Great Britain: cephalic index-76,1. facial index-91,4. upper facial index-54,2

    It's almost identical with 4 examples of Keltic-Nordids
    cephalic index-77,5. facial index-93,7. upper facial index-54

    And compare it with Corded-Nordics (original Nordics)
    cephalic index-72,4. facial index-95,6. upper facial index-57.6

    Thus, Nordic iron age Celts (continental and island as well) are more close to Meds metrically, than to original Nordics. Also pre-historix Iberia was full of Celtic tribes, but i've never seen that ancient authors described Iberian Celts as blondes like ancient Germans for example. So it can be concluded that original ancient Celts must be associated with western Med. types and their the closest cousins Keltic-Nordids
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enflamme View Post
    According Coon, Portugal is the most mediterranean country

    "Non-Mediterranean elements in the Portuguese population are rare and of little importance. A few Nordics are scattered throughout but are particularly concentrated in the north. Traces of Dinaric blood, as we have already seen, may likewise be found on the northern coast. Negroid blood, introduced into Portugal through the medium of freed slaves, has largely been absorbed. The liberated negroes settled mostly in the cities, where negroes from the Portuguese colonies are still to be seen in some numbers. The liberality of the Portuguese social attitude toward persons of different race has prevented the retention, as in Arabia and the United States, of a stigmatized negroid class. On the whole, the absorption of negroes by the Portuguese has had no appreciable effect on the racial position of the country. Portugal remains, as it has been since the days of the Muge shell-fish eaters, classic Mediterranean territory."


    "Portugal is, on the whole, fully as Mediterranean in race as is Spain and, perhaps, in some respects, it is more so. The chief differences between the two countries are: that the Portuguese are almost urn-iormly brunet in pigmentation and that there are no regions in Portugal in which brachycephaly is as important as in the Asturias and Galicia. In fact, Portugal contains some of the lowest cephalic index means on the continent of Europe."
    Do we know what racial type those Brachycephals belong to?

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    They were an array of different clans and tribes of Celtic or Arcaic proto-Celtic (Hallstatt) culture, and after the Cantabrian Wars were progressively Latinized, though due their isolated and remote location they were able to keep their ethnic identity, were Christianized later and resisted the assimilation to the Roman culture.

    The Hallstatt have recently been disproven to be the original Celts, as it has been found that Celtic was spoken in Iberia long before the Hallstatt culture even influenced the area. Its likely that the Celtic languages and culture developed from trade networks across Atlantic Europe around 2000 BC.

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    Don Pelayo was astur, period.

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