Most European: Spaniards or Georgians

[Area51Defender]

Because they are not enough "pure basques", same as Catalonians, we are all mixed.

Nationalists/independentist they would never get so much support if they only accepted as Basques or Catalonian those who have 8 Basque or Catalan great-grandparents.

In reality, the entire nationalist phenomenon of the independence regions of Spain is a question more social and economic than genetic or racial issue.

You cannot differentiate, except in very extreme cases by appearance, a Catalan, an Extremadura, a Basque, a Galician or an Andalusian.

One of the great references of "democratic" Basque nationalism, Xabier Arzallus said: "I prefer a very black person who speaks Basque, than a very Basque Basque who does not"

(Yo prefiero a un negro, negro, que hable euskera que a un blanco que lo ignore )

The only ones that in a group could have more differences, would be the Canaries that have a lot of native base, and I don't know if nowadays, not even half of the Canaries can not differ so much from the peninsular ones.

Portugal, Castile, and Aragon were the only kingdoms that expanded southward and assimilated the Moorish population, while Navarre stayed in its own little mountain corner in the north.

In the limpieza the sangre (blood purity) system, the Basques were the only ones who were exempt from verification, as they were believed to have retained most of their original genes.

However, most Basques nowadays are indistinguishable from other Spaniards only because they have recent ancestry from other parts of Spain. As I said before, pure Basques are only 20% of the total population of the Basque Country and Navarre: From what I recall, a former Basque poster named Perikolez stated that 40% are non-Basques and 40% are partial Basques.

Full-blooded Basques are an extreme case, and they have the highest Atlantic (West Nordic) admixture in the peninsula.

[Gota_type_]

Portugal, Castile, and Aragon were the only kingdoms that expanded southward and assimilated the Moorish population, while Navarre stayed in its own little mountain corner in the north.

In the limpieza the sangre (blood purity) system, the Basques were the only ones who were exempt from verification, as they were believed to have retained most of their original genes.

However, most Basques nowadays are indistinguishable from other Spaniards only because they have recent ancestry from other parts of Spain. As I said before, pure Basques are only 20% of the total population of the Basque Country and Navarre: From what I recall, a former Basque poster named Perikolez stated that 40% are non-Basques and 40% are partial Basques.

Full-blooded Basques are an extreme case, and they have the highest Atlantic (West Nordic) admixture in the peninsula.

LOL. Spanish kingdoms were in constant war against the moros. Don´t fall in the romantic theories of the XIX writers of the good convivence between the 3 cultures (that were basically just in 2-3 cities since 99% of Spaniards did not see a moor or a jew in all their lives in all that period).

And Spain has never been muslim. For Spain to have been muslim it should have been conquered 100%, while Asturias, Cantabria, Galicia, northern parts of Castilla, or Aragon were NEVER conquered. The half north of Spain just had a few garrisons here and there with a few dozens of moros that only informed Cordoba about a Christian army going south or to make raids to the north.

Christians of that time were as "fundamentalist" as yihadists are today, so the possibility of mixing with them or having a relationship was zero.

Even when the moriscos were rellocated they were so different to the normal population that they all were numbered and in those villages all people knew were the moriscos lived and that is why in 1609 all the moriscos of Spain were also kicked out, because it was known where they lived. There has never been a much more successfully Project like the Reconquista and ethnic cleaning that had Spain. But, we were too educated, we tell them to go, forced them to go. In a reversal situation they should have just killed christians. We even allowed them to take their belongings before marching through the ports to their final lands.

And today there are more muslims in any western European country that they were in all the several centuries of muslims in the half south and mediterranean Spain. Probably France today has like 10000 times more muslims that in AlAndalus Spain.

[Gota_type_]

In Al-Andalus 90% of native Iberians were Muslim, but they converted voluntarily. Georgians on the other hand resisted any attempt at Islamization even when under Muslim rule.

Incredible people is so ignorant! Or maybe trolling.

England was Roman for 500 years.
Spain was Roman for 500 years.

How much DNA do people in England or Spain have from those 500 years? I bet like between 1-3% máximum.

Do you really believe that millions of muslims came to Spain? Lol. In 711-1000? And that most Spaniards converted to that recently created religión?? Most Spaniards were fierce christians and most Spaniards remained christians and never saw a moor in their lives. The muslims were just in the main 5-6 cities and not in the rural áreas (where most of the people lived in those times).

People mistake being ruled (just part of it) with alliances between the local elites and the foreign elites, with a colonization and demographic invasión. Al Andalus was the first one: a few rulers, and like 1-2% of the total population in the country. And they were all kicked out. Like the Romans in England. Or blacks in the USA for the last 300 years. Do you really believe that because blacks have been living in the USA for 300 years, that whites are "heavily blacked" because of it? And we all know the big amount of rapes between the farmers and the slaves and probably other reversal rapes.

But hey, people always talk about shitty AlAndalus as if it was full of moros, when that is a COMPLETE LIE that only ignorants, retards, or those with some agenda believe. Even the maps that show almost all of Spain painted as muslim are FAKE. It is like when the mongols came to Europe and all the maps of most countries are painted as being part of the mongol "empire". The same stupidity.

[zebruh]

Incredible people is so ignorant! Or maybe trolling.

England was Roman for 500 years.
Spain was Roman for 500 years.

How much DNA do people in England or Spain have from those 500 years? I bet like between 1-3% máximum.

Do you really believe that millions of muslims came to Spain? Lol. In 711-1000? And that most Spaniards converted to that recently created religión?? Most Spaniards were fierce christians and most Spaniards remained christians and never saw a moor in their lives. The muslims were just in the main 5-6 cities and not in the rural áreas (where most of the people lived in those times).

People mistake being ruled (just part of it) with alliances between the local elites and the foreign elites, with a colonization and demographic invasión. Al Andalus was the first one: a few rulers, and like 1-2% of the total population in the country. And they were all kicked out. Like the Romans in England. Or blacks in the USA for the last 300 years. Do you really believe that because blacks have been living in the USA for 300 years, that whites are "heavily blacked" because of it? And we all know the big amount of rapes between the farmers and the slaves and probably other reversal rapes.

But hey, people always talk about shitty AlAndalus as if it was full of moros, when that is a COMPLETE LIE that only ignorants, retards, or those with some agenda believe. Even the maps that show almost all of Spain painted as muslim are FAKE. It is like when the mongols came to Europe and all the maps of most countries are painted as being part of the mongol "empire". The same stupidity.

Doesn't compare. Because only southern england was roman. Rome never occupied ireland I think. Or scotland.

And rome did cover a major part of hispania and evntually all of it including lusitania hispania.
In america they mixed but mixed races were deemed black automatically by the 1 drop rule so their decendants just became more ssa mixed. Also whites in the US abondaned their mixed children or never accepted them. Or couldn't because it was illegal.

Im not going to talk about al andulus because it looks like you its really getting to you. Although we know what happened.

[gixajo]

Portugal, Castile, and Aragon were the only kingdoms that expanded southward and assimilated the Moorish population, while Navarre stayed in its own little mountain corner in the north.

In the limpieza the sangre (blood purity) system, the Basques were the only ones who were exempt from verification, as they were believed to have retained most of their original genes.

However, most Basques nowadays are indistinguishable from other Spaniards only because they have recent ancestry from other parts of Spain. As I said before, pure Basques are only 20% of the total population of the Basque Country and Navarre: From what I recall, a former Basque poster named Perikolez stated that 40% are non-Basques and 40% are partial Basques.

Full-blooded Basques are an extreme case, and they have the highest Atlantic (West Nordic) admixture in the peninsula.

As you said before, than before you said perikolez, that probably said that after a thread when we were talking about this and where I show similar %. So you are telling me which I said just after I created an account in this forum, and I knew since I was a child.

Perikolez himself is a mixed Basque, according to him 3/4 of his ancestry is Basque, he will score more Basque even than my 100% mother from Álava province, just because his Basque ancestry is as far as I know from Vizcaya.

A Basque genetically is just a (Celt)Iberian with less outter input than the nowadays Spanish average individual.That´s all.

Distance to: Basque_Spanish
0.02399636 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA:RMPR435b
0.02514481 Iberia_Menorca_LBA:I3315
0.03090784 Iberia_North_BA:I2471
0.03115286 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12034
0.03122766 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.03151801 Iberia_Southeast_BA:I8570
0.03170889 Iberia_Central_BA:I6470
0.03179706 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.03255720 Iberia_Central_CA_Stp:EHU002
0.03282832 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4561
0.03338878 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1836
0.03390810 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4562
0.03404189 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8209
0.03473091 Iberia_East_IA:I3320
0.03504664 Iberia_East_IA:I3322
0.03572787 Iberia_Northeast_RomP:I8339
0.03579924 DEU_Singen_EBA:MX277
0.03610248 Iberia_North_BA:VAD004
0.03629612 Iberia_Mallorca_EBA:I4329
0.03637946 Iberia_Formentera_MBA:I4420_all
0.03683678 Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I5665
0.03758588 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8214
0.03807794 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4563
0.03808784 Iberia_East_IA:I3323
0.03910067 ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR1289


Distance to: Basque_French
0.02414738 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA:RMPR435b
0.02514949 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.02951761 Iberia_North_BA:I2471
0.02964219 DEU_Singen_EBA:MX277
0.03092835 Iberia_East_IA:I3322
0.03152514 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.03203900 Iberia_Menorca_LBA:I3315
0.03242559 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12034
0.03392904 Iberia_Central_CA_Stp:EHU002
0.03456230 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8209
0.03511897 CHE_EBA:SX20
0.03536865 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4561
0.03570985 Iberia_Southeast_BA:I8570
0.03585343 Bell_Beaker_ITA:I2478
0.03622391 Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I5665
0.03631749 CZE_Hallstatt_BylanyA111
0.03670819 Iberia_North_BA:VAD004
0.03733594 FRA_BASS4170
0.03744420 Iberia_East_IA:I12879
0.03762893 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8214
0.03764803 Iberia_Mallorca_EBA:I4329
0.03828392 Iberia_North_BA:I2470
0.03841890 Iberia_Central_BA:I6470
0.03843908 Iberia_East_IA:I3320
0.03862246 Iberia_Northeast_RomP:I8339

[gixajo]

Portugal, Castile, and Aragon were the only kingdoms that expanded southward and assimilated the Moorish population, while Navarre stayed in its own little mountain corner in the north.

In the limpieza the sangre (blood purity) system, the Basques were the only ones who were exempt from verification, as they were believed to have retained most of their original genes.

However, most Basques nowadays are indistinguishable from other Spaniards only because they have recent ancestry from other parts of Spain. As I said before, pure Basques are only 20% of the total population of the Basque Country and Navarre: From what I recall, a former Basque poster named Perikolez stated that 40% are non-Basques and 40% are partial Basques.

Full-blooded Basques are an extreme case, and they have the highest Atlantic (West Nordic) admixture in the peninsula.

Sorry but Navarra Kingdom is not entirely Basque genetically, and they did not expanded tehir kingdom to the south, but they they participated and very actively not only in the reconquest, but also in the repopulation of new lands.

[Area51Defender]

Incredible people is so ignorant! Or maybe trolling.

England was Roman for 500 years.
Spain was Roman for 500 years.

How much DNA do people in England or Spain have from those 500 years? I bet like between 1-3% máximum.

Do you really believe that millions of muslims came to Spain? Lol. In 711-1000? And that most Spaniards converted to that recently created religión?? Most Spaniards were fierce christians and most Spaniards remained christians and never saw a moor in their lives. The muslims were just in the main 5-6 cities and not in the rural áreas (where most of the people lived in those times).

People mistake being ruled (just part of it) with alliances between the local elites and the foreign elites, with a colonization and demographic invasión. Al Andalus was the first one: a few rulers, and like 1-2% of the total population in the country. And they were all kicked out. Like the Romans in England. Or blacks in the USA for the last 300 years. Do you really believe that because blacks have been living in the USA for 300 years, that whites are "heavily blacked" because of it? And we all know the big amount of rapes between the farmers and the slaves and probably other reversal rapes.

But hey, people always talk about shitty AlAndalus as if it was full of moros, when that is a COMPLETE LIE that only ignorants, retards, or those with some agenda believe. Even the maps that show almost all of Spain painted as muslim are FAKE. It is like when the mongols came to Europe and all the maps of most countries are painted as being part of the mongol "empire". The same stupidity.

Hundreds of secondhand sources written by Spanish professors and scholars state that Islam was the dominant faith in Al-Andalus not just amongst Arabs, Berbers, and Sub-Saharan Africans but amongst the native Romance-speaking Iberians as well, they were known as muladi (root of word of the modern-day mulatto). The muladi constituted the MAJORITY of the population of Al-Andalus, and because they were treated as equals in the eyes of the Moors and not as taxable Christian subjects (those were known as mozarabs), they frequently mixed with them.

Also Al-Andalus was the most developed country in Europe at the time, they had sanitation, education, technology which were all ahead of Catholic Europe. Many famous academics who contributed much to modern science were born in Al-Andalus, and the concepts of the ancient Greeks and Romans were revived and expanded upon. Many Catholic European nobles studied at the universities and libraries of Al-Andalus.

You say that the rural areas remained Christian but the majority of the Andalusian population lived in towns and cities where Islam was the dominant faith.

I agree, Moors were the ruling minority but 90% of the native Iberians voluntarily converted to Islam.

[Area51Defender]

Sorry but Navarra Kingdom is not entirely Basque genetically, and they did not expanded tehir kingdom to the south, but they they participated and very actively not only in the reconquest, but also in the repopulation of new lands.

Yes they repopulated so much that the most common surname in all of Spain, Garcia, is of Basque origin. If everyone with the surname Garcia claimed to be Basque, then the number of Basques would skyrocket while the number of Castilians would plummet.

[gixajo]

Yes they repopulated so much that the most common surname in all of Spain, Garcia, is of Basque origin. If everyone with the surname Garcia claimed to be Basque, then the number of Basques would skyrocket while the number of Castilians would plummet.

You insist on differentiating between different Spanish regions.

Having a Basque surname does not make you genetically Basque and much less culturally, nor does having a Castilian surname make you Castilian. We all have the same base.

You continually call us Moors, Arabs ,Jews or even gypsies for having between 0-15% of all these components together and, on the other hand, Basque, Catalan or Castilian differences when we have between 85-100% in common.

[Frowning Man]

We (Georgians) are not Europeans. And we don't really strive to be Europeans.