Religion(s) and the state?

[Anthropos]

Take the poll, state your opinion and please discuss!

Please do also state what alternative, after your observations, prevails in your country, what the de facto state of things are in your opinion i.e.

The poll has a Western/Christian bias, but there are alternatives for everyone.

[Murphy]

(5.) The state should be governed by Christianity. (The state should be governed by metaphysical principles and their applications. Freedom of religion should prevail. The state should favour Christianity in matters of law and custom.)

Regards,
Eóin.

[Anthropos]

(5.) The state should be governed by Christianity. (The state should be governed by metaphysical principles and their applications. Freedom of religion should prevail. The state should favour Christianity in matters of law and custom.)

Regards,
Eóin.

Thanks, and what is the prevailing order in Scotland as we speak, the prevailing relationship between religions and the state? This is not a trick question, I just think that it is interesting to discuss that along with the normative question.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

State and Religion should be separate

In 1773, the Rev. Isaac Backus , the most prominent Baptist minister in New England, observed that when "church and state are separate, the effects are happy, and they do not at all interfere with each other: but where they have been confounded together, no tongue nor pen can fully describe the mischiefs that have ensued."

The Godless Constitution

The word "God" does not appear within the text of the Constitution of the United States. After spending three-and-a-half months debating and negotiating about what should go into the document that would govern the land, the framers drafted a constitution that is secular. The U.S. Constitution is often confused with the Declaration of Independence, and it's important to understand the difference.


Religion is not the problem. Interference is, such as Paul and Constantine and the Popes and obviously the translations of the Bible.

[ikki]

Trial by combat.
Sacrifices to the gods, like giant blots.
Local democracy of council eldars.
That only cattle and silver be considered money.
Ultimate freedom, and thus rulers retain loyalty of the tribe members by gifting... in a tradition leading to ring-giving.
Fertility rituals etc.. (sought after position of the fair maiden of earth, men compete.. and the winner marries her.. and with their fruitful coupling... so will the earth be bountiful)

http://www.poppyware.com/dunham/ralios/vinga.html

[Murphy]

Thanks, and what is the prevailing order in Scotland as we speak, the prevailing relationship between religions and the state? This is not a trick question, I just think that it is interesting to discuss that along with the normative question.

This is an interesting question. One I do not have much opportunity to discuss due to no one really caring .

In Scotland, both the Catholic and Protestants don't really observe their respective faiths. Being Catholic and being Protestant is simply a social identity and determines more what football (soccer) team you are going to support than whether you're going to Heaven or Hell.

Most Protestants I would think are more loyal to the Orange Order than the Church of Scotland or Free Church of Scotland etc.

As things stand on the political scene, religion and state clash over the issue of Scottish independence as has been shown in another thread on the Orange Order. The hierarchies aren't very vocal on the issue, this is more stemming from the laity with Protestants being more likely to vote Unionist but still with an increasing number for Independence. Catholic's are pretty much pro-Independence because of the connections with Ireland.

The Church of Scotland has baisically went the way as other Protestant sects i.e. homosexual clergy.

The Catholic Church in Scotland isn't as bad as other places I must admit. There are a few crazy parishes that are more American Evangelical than Catholic—one such parish being just around the corner from me—but for the most part it is rather conservative with a few outspoken Bishops on issues such as Stem Cell research etc.

So Christianity is still a social factor in Scotland but not as we would expect.

The Mohammedan population is steadily growing, and many areas in Glasgow are simply not safe due to this. The government of course welcomes their contribution.

Regards,
Eóin.

[anonymaus]

State and Religion should be separate

In 1773, the Rev. Isaac Backus , the most prominent Baptist minister in New England, observed that when "church and state are separate, the effects are happy, and they do not at all interfere with each other: but where they have been confounded together, no tongue nor pen can fully describe the mischiefs that have ensued."

This. Any religionists wishing for state sponsorship of religion may enjoy the inevitable bloodshed in a country other than mine.

[Psychonaut]

Thomas Jefferson said it best:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

[Anthropos]

(4.) The state should be governed by metaphysical principles & applications insofar as shared between the great traditions. Freedom of religion should prevail and the state should keep with a neutral point of view of different religions. Customs of different religions should be accomodated, but it is not the responsibility of the state to provide for them.



As for this question ...

Please do also state what alternative, after your observations, prevails in your country, what the de facto state of things are in your opinion i.e.

... it is my opinion that Sweden is governed according to alternative number 6, with some exceptions. There are tendencies toward a directly anti-religious state of things (in accordance with alternative number 2). If I am not mistaken, religious symbols have already been banned from schools. Christian intellectuals are scorned by the intellectual 'elites' in government and media. Leaders of the Church of Sweden are basically errandboys (and -girls) for secular politicians. There is no consciental clause that would allow for doctors to refuse to perform abortions. In other words, Sweden is a clear cut case of the state giving directions to religious institutions (insofar as they can, i.e.) rather than the other way around.

[Lars]

Freedom of/from religion should be applied everywhere.
State and religion must be separated.
The state must be neutral.

Which excludes the following:
Special treatment and endorsement of religion of the government.
The notion that clergymen have special authority in moral, ethical, and brotherly love.

(I voted 3. but I do not agree with being neutral when it comes to science, how can you? That's not like taking a stand in politics or in a discussion. Science is knowledge, not a belief system. Evidence, not faith).