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Thread: Lithunian Pantheon

  1. #11
    Veteran Member Pure ja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hercus Monte View Post
    on the topic of Meteorite craters.
    Skomand already posted about this, so I'm just gonna add some more information about this ''devil''.

    Aitvaras (Atvaras, atvars, Kaukas, Pūkis, Damavykas, Sparyžius, Koklikas, Gausinėlis, Žaltvikšas, and Spirukas)
    .............In Finnish folklore, Ajatar (also spelled Aiatar, Ajattaro or Ajattara)
    ............ In Estonian Äi, Äijo or Äijattar.

    An Aitvaras looks like a white or black rooster with a fiery tail (meteorite). An Aitvaras may hatch from an egg of a 9–15 year old rooster. If the Aitvaras dies, he becomes a spark.
    In many cases, this Lithuanian creature is described as having the appearance of a rooster while indoors and the appearance of a dragon outdoors. An Aitvaras will lodge itself in a house and will most often refuse to leave. It brings both good and bad luck to the inhabitants of the house. Aitvaras provide their adopted home with stolen gold and grain, often getting the household into trouble. According to many, an Aitvaras can be purchased from the devil - the price being that person's soul.
    Äi / Äijö is just another name for Ukko / Uku.

    However, in my mind, Ait+varas and Kaukas associate with estonian 'kratt' and 'pisuhänd' - which were flying creatures who had to steal riches from others and bring it back to the master.

    Here is a nice description:
    http://www.para-web.org/archive/inde...read-4511.html

    ait (in estonian) = barn
    varas = a thief
    kaugas = pouch, bag
    kaukas = in the bag, in the pouch

    Pūkis ~ (in estonian) Puuk = a tick (who sucks the blood / riches of victims)

    So, basically, we are talking about thiefs and pocket thiefs here ;-)

    I am sure that those words have a different meaning in baltic languages :-)

    However, note that 'pisu+händ' actually also relates to Pikne / Pitkne, since 'pisu' is used both as a 'small' and as a 'tall' (in finnish language 'pisin' is 'the longest') and hence 'pisuhänd' designates a flying creature with a long tail. Falling meteorites have long tails.

    There are other names for similar creatures - (flying) snakes, Põhja Konn (Nordic Frog), etc.
    According to scandinavian sagas, the last European dragon was killed in Estonian Läänemaa.

    EDIT.
    And even the estonian national epic Kalevipoeg ends with the verse that eerily speaks about another coming of a meteorite:

    http://et.wikisource.org/wiki/Lühike...lude_sisust#XX

    Aga ükskord algab aega,
    Kus kõik pirrud kahel otsal
    Lausa lähvad lõkendama;
    Lausa tuleleeki lõikab
    Käe kalju kammitsasta:
    Küll siis Kalev jõuab koju
    Oma lastel õnne tooma,
    Eesti põlve uueks looma."

    (my own free translation)
    Once there will come time,
    when all lighting sticks
    catch fire on both ends;
    bisecting flames of fire,
    trapped hand (pulls) from the cliff-wall:
    then will Kalev come back home
    bring his children luck and fortune,
    to recreate a new generation of estonians.

    The three sons of Old Kalev are likely the three holocene meteorite impacts into Estonia - Tsõõrikmäe, Ilumetsa, Kaali. The youngest and strongest son Kalevipoeg would be the Kaali meteorite, which is also the youngest and largest of the three meteorite impacts. Old Kalev himself could be either the newly-found Vaida crater or more likely the much larger Neugrund crater. Neugrund crater has littered much of the Estonian coastal areas and islands with ejected large stone boulders. As I already wrote once, the grave of Odin in Odensholm island is the closest land spot to the Neugrund meteorite crater. And the Karja church in Saaremaa carries the same symbol (Karja triskele, look to the left) that is also associated with Odin. Due to the Neugrund impact crater, Odensholm / Osmussaar is also near underground faults, which sometimes cause earthquakes - largest in Estonia. Neugrund meteorite crater would be the hallway to Hell that the dead Kalevipoeg was sent by Taara to guard, so that the Devil could not escape. And the fist of Kalevipoeg is stuck either in the crater wall, or in the Baltic Clint (the largest wall in the neighbourhood), which passes by nearby. When Kalevipoeg tries to get his fist free, it causes earthquakes.

    The Neugrund crater is an impressive "land"-formation (underwater), it might have been a dry ground shortly at the initial stage of the last ice age, when the Balto-Scandian ice sheet was still forming. It is even possible that the Neugrund "land"-formation had some significance to the early humans who inhabited the region before the last ice age and who somehow guessed the origin of the impact crater.

    So, the ending verse is certainly right in the sense that if another meteorite will impact Estonia, it will certainly change the future of estonians. But the verse also suggests that the ancestors of estonians were good at profiting from the fame of the land of fallen meteorites and fallen suns. If another one falls, it would become a significant tourist attraction, for sure ;-)

    But this speculation would also again show that the epic of Kalevipoeg is not a far-fetched fairytale, at least not entirely.
    Last edited by Pure ja; 10-26-2013 at 08:22 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure ja View Post
    ait (in estonian) = barn
    varas = a thief
    kaugas = pouch, bag
    kaukas = in the bag, in the pouch
    hope this helps you out.

    daržinė; klojimas; kluonas; klėtis = barn
    Vagis = a thief
    maišiukas; krepšelis = pouch, bag
    maišiuke; krepšelį = in the bag, in the pouch

  3. #13
    lI
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    I recently had a pleasure of stubling upon a Lithuanian equivalent of Pure ja, just thought I'd share:
    Quote Originally Posted by Vembras
    Quote Originally Posted by Leliwa
    Neseniai buvau Lenkijoje ir vienas senas lenkų žolininkas pavaišino midum su gydomąja žole.
    Jis tą gėrimą pavadino - LITWOROWKA.
    Paklausiau, iš kur toks keistas pavadinimas, panašiai skamba, kaip nuo LITWA...
    O jis ir sako: ši žolė iš Tatrų priekalnių, kur kažkadais ir buvo jūsų LITWA
    Tai vos neužspringau tuo midum.
    Ir, vėl klausiu, iš kur tokios žinios, o jis šyptelėjo į ūsą: seni žmonės pasakojo...

    Gal ką girdėjote apie tą augalą:
    Lenkų LITWOR - Vaistinė šventagaršvė (lot. Angelica archangelica).
    http://www.infomed.lt/vaistazoles/va...ve_lot_angelic...

    LIT + WOR (VOR)
    , kur VOR reikštų senas, senobinis.
    Tai taip išeitų - senovinis lietuvių gydomasis augalas - šventagaršvė?

    Štai mūsų žynių, gyduolių palikimas iš Tatrų protėvynės.
    Kažkaip faktai dėliojasi, kad kažkur Karpatuose ir Tatruose palikę slavus, į šiaurę nusidanginome iki Valdajaus ir Suomijos įlankos krantų.
    Kur mūsų senasis TOLYNAS (dabartinis est. TALLINN)...
    http://www.lapetite-pologne.com/prod...roducts_id=474

    Taip taip - iš protėvynės. Ten dar ir Dunojus teka - iš čia visi tie Dunojėliai liaudies dainose.

    Tolynas, tada Ilsintis ( Helsinkis ) - čia jau prolietuviai ilsėdavosi, o Nuovargio šalį - Nuovargiją - pasiekdavo visai pavargę. Pailsėję traukdavo į pietus - pakeliui įkurdami Uoslį, tada per Duoniją tiesiai traukdavo į Varlyną.

    He also reminds me of a few episodes from this one XD
    pani profesora Lądowe
    pan Giedriusz, profesor magistr historyk
    &
    po poiłiudnu z Brużem

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by link View Post
    I recently had a pleasure of stubling upon a Lithuanian equivalent of Pure ja, just thought I'd share:


    He also reminds me of a few episodes from this one XD
    pani profesora Lądowe
    pan Giedriusz, profesor magistr historyk
    &
    po poiłiudnu z Brużem
    jo, būtent. O, vokiečiai( Vo kieti) tai išgirdę taip supyko, kad mes tą douniją ir Nouvargiją taip gerai pažystam, net mūsų bernus lynais(berlynas) sumušė.

    ir kur tokių kadrų randa?

  5. #15
    Veteran Member Pure ja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hercus Monte View Post
    ​^

    Piktulis
    literally means angry man.
    Perkūnas literally means thunder. Per - through, kūnas - body. (goes straight through the body).


    that's an interseting theory, but Perkūnas is an Indo-european god, his closest relatives (apart from Finnish Perkele) are Thor, Žunraz (the common Germanic thunder god) and the Slavic Perun.

    I doubt witnessing something like a meteor coming down to Estonia could have spread one of the most universal pagan deities in europe.

    all of them are derived from Perkwunos.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkwunos
    Be as it may, one needs to explain the estonian / baltic-finnic words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure ja View Post
    Be as it may, one needs to explain the estonian / baltic-finnic words.
    maybe they're just loan-words?

  7. #17
    Veteran Member Pure ja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hercus Monte View Post
    hope this helps you out.

    daržinė; klojimas; kluonas; klėtis = barn
    Vagis = a thief
    maišiukas; krepšelis = pouch, bag
    maišiuke; krepšelį = in the bag, in the pouch
    It doesn't. But thanks anyway.
    I am more interested in what the names of your deities derive from, not from pouches.

  8. #18
    Veteran Member Pure ja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hercus Monte View Post
    maybe they're just loan-words?
    Might be.
    But such loanwords should have a history.
    A very old history, if we take into account the Ilumetsa meteorite impact dating of more than 6600 years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure ja View Post
    Might be.
    But such loanwords should have a history.
    A very old history, if we take into account the Ilumetsa meteorite impact dating of more than 6600 years ago.
    I doubt we should take a meteorite crater into account. don't get me wring, it's nice that you have it and all but I don't think such a relatively minor event left a lasting impression.
    I think we have loan-words because we're neighbors.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hercus Monte View Post
    ​^

    Piktulis
    literally means angry man.
    Perkūnas literally means thunder. Per - through, kūnas - body. (goes straight through the body).


    that's an interseting theory, but Perkūnas is an Indo-european god, his closest relatives (apart from Finnish Perkele) are Thor, Žunraz (the common Germanic thunder god) and the Slavic Perun.
    Does it always have to be either one or the other?

    Thor / Taara / Torum is a widely used deity, almost eurasiatic.

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