Indo-European origins.

[Siginulfo]

Come on guys we all know Protospatha has one of these:
An

What the fuck do you want from me? Do you know me? Keep your stupid posts for you, piece of s**t. What stupid people exist in this world...

[Demhat]

According to a lot of scientists Hethits come to Anatolia from Central Asia, before foreign invasions in Anatolia had lived people from caucasian language group.

Never heard of that, only heard that according to Hittites themselves they came from Kuschara, which scientist believe was in the Southeast.

[Demhat]

Obviously Eastern Europe and not Asia. This takes fauna and flora in account. The caucus mountains could never support the population needed for the massive aryan invasion.

Actually the Kurgan Hypothesis supports exactly this, the North Caucasus, Central Asian, East European origin. While the West Asian hypothesis does not settle the Urheimat in the Caucasus mountains but somewhere in East-Central Anatolia/West Iran and the fertile crescent.

[Albion]

The first R1b in Europe where found among the late neolthic Bell Beakers which Skull structure were described as "Dinarized".

Yes, the transition period between Neolithic and Bronze Ages.

[Optimus]

Not by genetists but some linguists and archeologists who base this on chariots and horses which they believe where domesticated first in the steppes however. the first linguistic traces of Indo Europeans are from Anatolia (The Hethits) who are believed to have come from a city Southeast of Anatolia.

You have right about that,but the highest diversity of R1a1a is found inbetween Central and Eastern Europe.I am talking about the original Urhemait which is most likely the Ukrainian steppes not Kazakhstan like some people want to believe.

Also Hitttites were clearly intruders into Anatolia.That is attested how the Ancient Egyptians made clear distinction(depictions in the Battle of Kadesh) between Hittite rulers and native Hattian population which were depicted as highly Dinarized probably they were Armenoids if we go taxonomy wise.

[Demhat]

Yes, the transition period between Neolithic and Bronze Ages.

It started in the Neolthic going into Bronze Age right.

So it was most probably brought with people who came roughly at the same time as the "farmers and pastoralists". This means if R1b is an Indo-European marker, Neolthic farmers and pastoralists = Indo Europeans ?

I think the Bell beakers reached Western Europe through See or North Africa.

[Demhat]

You have right about that,but the highest diversity of R1a1a is found inbetween Central and Eastern Europe.I am talking about the original Urhemait which is most likely the Ukrainian steppes not Kazakhstan like some people want to believe.

Also Hitttites were clearly intruders into Anatolia.That is attested how the Ancient Egyptians made clear distinction(depictions in the Battle of Kadesh) between Hittite rulers and native Hattian population which were depicted as highly Dinarized probably they were Armenoids if we go taxonomy wise.

Yes they were introduced into Central Anatolia, early Hatti there is no doubt about that but from where? According to themselves from a city called Kussara and scientists place this area in the Southeast (which is basically Southeast Anatolia, North Mesopotamia and West Iran).

That the oldest R1a1a* clades today are in Central Asia and East Europe doesnt have to say much. Only if we speculate (like the supporters of the Kurgan Hypothesis do) that R1a1a* was the Proto Indo European marker, than this might say something. It looks different if you speculate that J2, R1b and G were the proto Indo European markers. I believe it is possible that Proto Indo European language was introduced to the steppes by People from West Asia which used to be high in J2, R1b and G. Than these Steppe Hunters and Gatheres adopted Indo European language and spread it into North, East Europa and Central Asia. It is well known that even the Indo Europeans from the steppes were pastoralists. And pastoralism is also an invention from West Asia. Also typical pastoralist and farmer words in Indo European languages show there have to had been contact.

Imo there are two scenarios how R1a* reached West Asia. Either it was already native to this area or it came through a second wave. Means. Proto Indo Europeans from West Asia introduced Indo European language into the steppes.These Indo Europinazed and mixed (with the West Asian Indo Europeans) Hunthers and Gatheres which adopted pastoralism made a second movement into Europe, Central and West Asia and brought the North European component and as well R1a lineages into West Asia.


This are my two Hypothesis.

1. Either R1a1a* originated in West Asia and there is simply not enough researchers on it.

2. Look at the explanation above.


I would like to believe the Kurgan Hypothesis but the thing is there are too many facts and evidences for an West Asian connection. For example if the very first Indo Europeans came from the Steppes why isnt there any traces of Indo European language older than the Hittites. Why were most if not all Indo Europeans pastoralists and even have words for farming in their vocabulary. Why are there semitic loanwords in all Indo European languages? Something is weird here imo.

[Zorg]

What the fuck do you want from me? Do you know me? Keep your stupid posts for you, piece of s**t. What stupid people exist in this world...

Hmm..

[Optimus]

@Demhat Hittite is not the oldest Indo-European language,it is the oldest attested/written Indo-European language.The Hittite elite was quite different phenotype wise from native Anatolians/WestAsians.That is what ancient Egyptians depicted them in the battle of Kadesh.So it is clear Indo-European Hittites were not native WestAsians but intruders.

Also J2,G,R1b is a range of haplogroups.Accordingly Proto Indo-Europeans were quite patriarchal themself,they were quite homogenous in paternal haplogroups and heterogenous in maternal haplogroups.Maybe Proto Proto Indo-Europeans were WestAsians but PIE were EasternEuropeans for sure.J2,G has absolutely nothing to do with PIE,it is insane to even think about it.

[Demhat]

What is obviously like I mentioned, there was a connection from South East Anatolia, North Mesopotamia into the Steppes even some 4-5000 years ago before the Assyrians managed to conquer these areas and blur the traces.

"Kurgan" stelae where found in the Kurdish areas of Hakkari and Northern Iraq which have striking similarities to these found in the Ukrainian steppes.

from Hakkari



Ukraine


interestingly the one from Hakkari are older than their counterparts from Ukraine. So there is one of the many proves and evidences that there was contact between the two areas.