Is West Asian a European component?

**orangepulp** · 01-31-2013, 08:18 PM

I was having a discussion on one thread regarding the West Asian component and according to Alfieb the West Asian/Caucasus component is considered as a European component due to its high frequency in Southern Europe.

The West Asian component originates from the Near East and just because Southern Europeans have notable amount of West Asian genes it shouldn't be considered as European. According to Alfieb Anatolia and the Caucasus are European.

Originally Posted by alfieb

"West Asian" is Anatolian and Caucasian. Anatolia may have been the origin of all Indo-European peoples. Caucasia is still considered to be Europe.

Either way, it was politically and culturally part of Europe until you Turkmen showed up.

Which is all that matters, since the division between Eurasia is purely artificial.

Originally Posted by alfieb

Georgia, Turkey, and Armenia are all in (at least part) Europe and compete in UEFA.

If such were the case then Armenians, Turks, Assyrians, Kurds, Georgians and even Persians would be considered as Europeans.

So my question is, do you think the West Asian component is European?

**Vesuvian Sky** · 01-31-2013, 08:24 PM

From what I've been able to tell and given the findings of the aDNA Cardial Ware and LBK studies showing the Y-DNA of the males being 'G', it seems the Caucus compenent that Europeans (particularly southerners) have is derived from the wave of agro advance which appears to have begun in East Anatoila/Southern Caucuses/Mesopotamia.

Doug McDonald ascribes just about all of my Middle-Eastern to S. Caucuses.

So to answer your question its the disctincly Neolithic component to Europeans which is ultimately Near/Middle Eastern derived.

**alfieb** · 01-31-2013, 08:24 PM

I said that it's Eurasian, not simply European, nor Asian.

Greeks are 30% West Asian. Armenians are 50% West Asian. Georgians are 75% West Asian. Georgia and Armenia are neither fully Asian nor fully European.

**~~Sikeliot~~** · 01-31-2013, 08:25 PM

It's neither "European" nor "non-European" to me.

It doesn't matter to me so much where it originated but that it is an integral part of many peoples' genes, both within Europe and outside of it.

**orangepulp** · 01-31-2013, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by alfieb

I said that it's Eurasian, not simply European, nor Asian.

Now this is just like changing the names because you may not like the way West Asian sounds. If it were a Eurasian component it would have been called Eurasian. We might as well make the Southwest Asian component Eurasian too since it is also present in Southern Europe.

Greeks are 30% West Asian. Armenians are 50% West Asian. Georgians are 75% West Asian. Georgia and Armenia are neither fully Asian nor fully European.

And the same goes with Greeks and Italians, genetically they are neither fully Asian or European. If the West Asian component were to be considered European, Europe would stretch all the way to Iran and the Levant.

**~~Sikeliot~~** · 01-31-2013, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by orangepulp

And the same goes with Greeks and Italians, genetically they are neither fully Asian or European. If the West Asian component were to be considered European, Europe would stretch all the way to Iran and the Levant.

As I said before, "European" is a social construct. We have decided collectively to draw the line for European or not, in such a way that anyone in Europe is "European" on a PCA plot (including the buffer groups like Sicilians and Greeks).. but if historically, those groups did not become part of Europe, we'd draw the line somewhere else and re-evaluate what "European" genetically means.

**orangepulp** · 01-31-2013, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hellenas

Mr. Pan-Asianist...You are a liar!!!
(or you don't know what you reading)

As Dienekes put it...

"No need to repeat that these prices are aspects of relations between the Greeks and other populations [B]and not necessarily mean that the Greeks are a mixture of Basque, Sardinians, West Asiats, etc. Just demonstrate that there are eg greater common roots with the peoples of Asia Minor than with the Basques or with Sardinians and other Mediterranean peoples than with those of the Baltic."

http://greekgenetics.blogspot.gr/

It doesn't mean that we are SW & West Asiats and thus half "non-Europeans", it means that we just have a common origin. We the Greeks are partly Neolithic and we have came from the Near East at least 9,000-10,000 years ago, but right now we are completely Europeanized, we are not "Asiats" any more, we are Europeans. According to the way you see genetics soon you will come out with statements such as: "Half of Europe is not European".

What am I lying about that West Asian component is not European!! That means Turks, Armenians, Kurds, etc.. are all European!

Besides, it says Greeks have common roots with people of Asia Minor which basically means you have Near Eastern genes.

Also...

Here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...E&pli=1#gid=24

we read that Greeks are 22,9 of West_Asian origin but instead of that you posted an other percentage which increase West_Asian origin to 37,7, so we all understand what you doing here.

Where is the link? How many Greeks took place to this research?

Globe 13 is the latest run by Dienekes, I posted the link and I am posting it again:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...E&pli=1#gid=24

19 Greeks participated.

Originally Posted by Hellenas

So according to you all Europeans are non-Europeans as they came ALL OF THEM outside Europe.

No, I didn't say this. I said that certain Southern Euros such as Greeks and Italians have significant amount of non-European originated components thus makes them not completely European in the genetic sense.