North European ADMIXTURE Component From Eurogenes And Dodecad

[Black Wolf]

I am starting this topic as I know mane here also have an interest in the ADMIXTURE components from both the Eurogenes and Dodecad Projects. As most of you know both Polako and Dienekes have found what they call a ''North European'' ancestral component in their different ADMIXTURE analysis. This component as you know is the dominant autosomal ancestral component all over Northern and Central Europe. It is spread from Ireland in the far west to Russia in the far east. Now Polako seems to think that it originated in groups that formed in the Baltic region during the middle or late Neolithic. It arose from the mixing between local Mesolithic origin hunter-gatherers and incoming Neolithic farmers. He then thinks that is spread around later to all parts of Europe including Ireland in the very far west with Indo-European speakers. The problem that I see with this theory though is that there really are no indications of massive population movements into Britain or Ireland since the Neolithic period. So what then explains the presence of the North European component in all of the populations of Northern and Central Europe? That is how can the Irish and the Russians both score so high in the North European ADMIXTURE component when they come from the opposite sides of Europe and have very different population histories? Does this component relate back to common Mesolithic hunter-gatherer ancestry that survived in both Ireland and Russian and many other parts of Europe?

[Black Wolf]

What do people here think about the origins of the North European component that both Polako and Dienekes discovered in their different calculators such as the Eurogenes K9 and K13 and the Dodecad K12b and globe13? We know that this component was the dominant one among the ancient Mesolithic Iberian hunter-gatherers from La Brana and also the later PWC hunter-gatherers from Sweden but these ancient samples are still outside the range of modern variation apparently. So it seems then that the North European component can't really be a purely Upper Paleolithic or Mesolithic component when seen in modern Europeans today. So what is it then exactly? A combination of old Mesolithic European hunter-gatherer genes and later incoming Neolithic farmer type genes? Thoughts?

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Dodecad North European DNA in South Asia correlates very closely to Indo-Europeans!

Dodecad North European DNA is highest in Europe in Lithuanians who have the most conservative ancient Indo-European language!

It seems to correlate quite closely!

[gold_fenix]

i am agree with you Jaxman, it is extrange that the called Nothern european component is relative high in Iberian being southern

[Black Wolf]

Dodecad North European DNA in South Asia correlates very closely to Indo-Europeans!

Dodecad North European DNA is highest in Europe in Lithuanians who have the most conservative ancient Indo-European language!

It seems to correlate quite closely!

Yes indeed it is true that the North European component reaches it's very highest frequency among Lithuanians and probably also Latvians if they test. It is also very high among Finns but we know that Finns are largely descended genetically from Indo-European type peoples who at some point switched their language to a Uralic one. The presence in India is also quite interesting.

[Black Wolf]

i am agree with you Jaxman, it is extrange that the called Nothern european component is relative high in Iberian being southern

Among modern Iberians as well you mean?

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Yes indeed it is true that the North European component reaches it's very highest frequency among Lithuanians and probably also Latvians if they test. It is also very high among Finns but we know that Finns are largely descended genetically from Indo-European type peoples who at some point switched their language to a Uralic one. The presence in India is also quite interesting.

It seems like Latvians are less North-European than Lithuanians. (This fits though since Lithuanians speak a more ancient Indo-European language than Lithuanians)
(See cluster 4 below)
http://imageshack.us/a/img560/1594/eskoclusters.png


Polako did a good article here connecting North-West Eurasian DNA to Indo-Europeans!

http://bga101.blogspot.com/2012/09/t...-eurasian.html

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Yes indeed it is true that the North European component reaches it's very highest frequency among Lithuanians and probably also Latvians if they test. It is also very high among Finns but we know that Finns are largely descended genetically from Indo-European type peoples who at some point switched their language to a Uralic one. The presence in India is also quite interesting.

It is very possible that Finland was of Indo-Europeans who became Finno-Ugric speakers!

It seems like the Saami are the true Finno-Ugrics of the West.

You can see in this DNA map below where Finno-Ugric DNA cluster is to the lower right & how Kuusamo Finns more like the Saami are further from Indo-Europeans by DNA than is Helsinki!

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gn...0/09/nord3.png

[d3cimat3d]

I'd like to think North-European is synonymous with Mesolithic-European but it could very well be a hybrid of Mesolithic+Neolithic. At 37% north-European I consider myself 1/3 Mesolithic hunter gatherer but it could be as low as 1/5 if that component is mixed with Neolithic. However looking at Finns they seem to be 85% north European so that would make sense considering they have minimal Neolithic farming ancestry (15%?).

[Black Wolf]

It is very possible that Finland was of Indo-Europeans who became Finno-Ugric speakers!

It seems like the Saami are the true Finno-Ugrics of the West.

You can see in this DNA map below where Finno-Ugric DNA cluster is to the lower right & how Kuusamo Finns more like the Saami are further from Indo-Europeans by DNA than is Helsinki!

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gn...0/09/nord3.png

Yes I believe that quite a few linguists also believe that most of the ancestors of modern day Finns most likely were originally Indo-European like people who at some point switched to speaking a Uralic language.