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Thread: Berlin cashier is flashpoint in capitalism row

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    Most workplaces have to give one or two warnings before they fire. If they don't then they must have it displayed prominently in their mission statement/charter or in the terms of employment. As a employee you should try and keep up to speed with whichever is relevant to your particular workplace.

    I personally would give someone like this the benefit of the doubt more so if it's a long standing employee but the chances are good they've done it before and they'll do it again. Stealing from an employer means you lose their trust and for some, in cases that involve cash handling, that's just too bigger liability to have around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordoftheVistula View Post
    This situation also begs the question as to what sort of person would work the same bottom-level position for 31 years.
    I'd presume a very loyal hard working person.


    What I found interesting is it isn't actually money she is accused of stealing.

    "...the 50-year-old who has become a German cause celebre denies the charges that she kept bottle deposit receipts worth 1.30 euros."

    So it wasn't actual money, but pieces of paper?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeornWulfWer View Post
    I'd presume a very loyal hard working person.


    What I found interesting is it isn't actually money she is accused of stealing.

    "...the 50-year-old who has become a German cause celebre denies the charges that she kept bottle deposit receipts worth 1.30 euros."

    So it wasn't actual money, but pieces of paper?
    Oh, now I think I see what's going on. In Germany, they have a 25 cent bottle deposit, but to get it back, you need to bring the receipt with the bottle back to the place where you bought it. So, I guess what she was doing was keep all the receipts that people don't take for whatever reason, then later go out and find a bottle to match the receipt and cash that in, easy way to pick up an extra couple Euros/day. That does seem a lame reason to fire someone, but still you have to allow them that right to do so, or else it gets out of control with the cost and hassle to get of employees. If she's that good of a worker, she'll be able to find other employment. Also, if it's like the US, the unclaimed bottle deposit money goes to the government, and they probably have strong fines & sanctions to anyone who violates procedure, so the company probably has to cover its ass by having strict rules against trying to game the bottle deposit system.
    Last edited by SwordoftheVistula; 03-01-2009 at 02:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordoftheVistula View Post
    This situation also begs the question as to what sort of person would work the same bottom-level position for 31 years.
    This situation also begs to question what sort of person not even a mother can love.
    Last edited by Jamt; 03-01-2009 at 03:05 AM.

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    But guaranteed mandatory employment? I don't think anyone should have that.

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    Society will always be result of balances among groups and interests. Anything else is fantasy. There is nothing anywhere as mandatory employment, just as there is no mandatory private corporation.

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    Well, if it's not mandatory employment, then they are entitled to release her for any or no reason, including putting this bottle deposit money into her own pocket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordoftheVistula View Post
    If you can't fire someone for stealing, what can you fire someone for? If you have someone working in a position where they handle money, you have to have a high level of trust in the person, and if you catch them stealing the only sensible action is to fire the person. This situation also begs the question as to what sort of person would work the same bottom-level position for 31 years. At any rate, these type of jobs are easy come/easy go, they are easy to find since they pay so low, so if someone gets fired from one it's not the end of the world. Comparisons to the overall economic crisis don't match up since it wasn't supermarkets that caused the economic collapse.
    I don't think you've read my post correctly. I said that an employer needs PROOF of theft.


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    I don't think there is anything wrong with someone working a low-level job for their whole working life as this woman has. [If "Barbara Emme" didn't do it, "Fatima Hussein" would be imported to do so.]

    Work does not define one's life; whatever one's occupation and salary, one can always make life meaningful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Fox View Post
    I don't think you've read my post correctly. I said that an employer needs PROOF of theft.
    I don't think that should be needed. This isn't a legal proceeding, this is just one part of the employment relationship deciding to discontinue the relationship. Firstly, it is hard to 'prove' someone is stealing, they'd have to put up cameras, which could be expensive and might not work anyways, and they don't have police powers to go searching for evidence (searching employees & their houses, cars, etc), and I don't think we want to give them these police powers either. Also, since you can (maybe not in Germany) fire/lay off employees for a myriad of other reasons, or no reason at all, it would be ridiculous to require some sort of legal proceeding to 'prove beyond reasonable doubt' that someone stole. It's like if someone comes over to my house, and at a later point in time I notice something missing...I can't PROVE he stole it, and as such if I call the cops they won't do anything...but I'm not going to let that dude into my house again. So requiring a company to prove theft before firing someone is both overly burdensome to the employer (and impossible in many cases) and pointless since the employer can just fire the employee for some other reason.

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