Iberian DNA haplogroups from 20,000-4,340 years ago exactly like modern Europeans

[Fire Haired]

My evidence is a lack of evidence for your statement.

No signs of a visible gene flow through the Steppe north of the Caucasus.

Lack of any significant amount of Western Asian Admixture in people there(I don't count the Tatars).

And a simple thing - haplogroups. Their distribution and evolution suggests a gene flow of R1b's from what is now Turkey, through the southern Europe. Let's consider a recent study of the bulgarian haplogroups, where scientists observed some non-trivial amounts of R1b-L11 and suggested quite ancient age of it in Bulgaria.

If Pontic Steppe was so much R1b, it would be more common in Slavs. But it's not.

etc. etc.

i dont think there is enough DNA to tell where R1b L11 Indo European in western europe came from i really really doubt they went through turkey the first indo europeans in trukey where hittites Indo European culture took off in teh pontic steppes not turkey sure teh maykop culture should signs of being indo european but that is probably because of contact with steppe people the culture of teh Nordic bronze age, Unetic culture and other early indo european cultures ine urope trace to to stepppe cultures the Unetice 4,000ybp and modern irish and scottish used plaid clothing this clothing was also similar to GErmanic tribes clothing and to teh clothing ancinet syhthiens wore and there was palid tarten clothing fom INdo Iranien taroum mummies from 3,000ybp so they had teh same clthing as western european R1b L11 Indo Europeans and we know they came form the steppes so it makes sense that teh R1b L11 INdo Europeans also came from the steppes the Bulgarian thing i not goo enough evidence

u dont find high amounts of west asian and southwest asian globe13 austomnal DNA in R1b areas in europe liek u would except if tehy came from Turkey and since lets say orignally tehy had 100% R1b when tehy where in turkey tehy would have still inter married with other people in turkey who had mainly Y DNA J then why dont u see any J in Ireland or Denmark or any where in western europe besides known areas of Greco Romans there is no trace of a mid eastern trukish gene flow in western europe except Italy because of the Greco Roman world

and there is a huge connection with red hair and R1b L11 in western europe which means it rpobablycame from those indo europeans which means they where white europeans not brown turkish people and they probably did not come from south eastern europe either and the fact that indo iraniens also had alot of red hair and they came from steppe indo europeans too that probably means the ones in western europe came from the steppe

u mad that thread about the DNA from northern steppe cultures 5,000-6,000ybp like yamna they might get DNA from the ancestors of the Adronovo people or the Indo European that went to western europe i was suprised when they said they had dark eyes because over 70% of Indo Iranien remains had light eyes but people in that area today have less than 15% light eyes

u cant just say because slavs dont have R1b means they did not g through eastern europe R1b L11 we dont know right now why some indo european groups had almost only R1a1a1b and why the western european ones and probably the Hittites had almost only R1b or why INdo Europeans are so connected to R1a and R1b

[Atlantic Islander]

Interesting.

[Äijä]

These IE theories are facinating, it could they also had the first airplane in the world.

Launched from the steppe and hit a mountain in Iberia, only a few survivors but they conquered.

[Fire Haired]

These IE theories are facinating, it could they also had the first airplane in the world.

Launched from the steppe and hit a mountain in Iberia, only a few survivors but they conquered.

I wrote this thread along time ago, my opinion has probably changed a lot. I probably had exaggerated ideas about spread of Indo Europeans. I am wondering do Finnish have anything against the rest of Europe since they are not Indo European speakers and have been oppressed. Who is your profile picture? It looks like a Viking but your Finnish not Swedish, Norwegian, or Danish. It would be a good fight my guy who is trying to look like an ancient Celtic warrior from west Europe vs a non Indo European Finn from northern Europe. It is like two very different world colliding.

[Anthropologique]

These IE theories are facinating, it could they also had the first airplane in the world.

Launched from the steppe and hit a mountain in Iberia, only a few survivors but they conquered.

LOL!

[Graham]

R1b is mainly Bell Beaker and could be the ancestor of the Celtic languages.

[Anthropologique]

R1b is mainly Bell Beaker and could be the ancestor of the Celtic languages.

I agree. Another reason why an increasing number of informed people believe Celticity may have first spread along the Atlantic Facade - Iberia to Scotland.

[Äijä]

I wrote this thread along time ago, my opinion has probably changed a lot. I probably had exaggerated ideas about spread of Indo Europeans. I am wondering do Finnish have anything against the rest of Europe since they are not Indo European speakers and have been oppressed. Who is your profile picture? It looks like a Viking but your Finnish not Swedish, Norwegian, or Danish. It would be a good fight my guy who is trying to look like an ancient Celtic warrior from west Europe vs a non Indo European Finn from northern Europe. It is like two very different world colliding.

Random picture, could be me if I had a helmet.

Finns have not been oppressed compared to others in Europe so no need to pity, thanks anyway.

And no offence, Finns are genetically more "Indo-European" than most of Europe.

Finns where raiding and traiding in boats armed to the teeth, you can call them what you want, does not make any difference to me.

[Fire Haired]

R1b is mainly Bell Beaker and could be the ancestor of the Celtic languages.

R1b was found in two males from Bell beaker Germany dating to about 2,500BC that's it. R1b L11 ancestor forms came through by the east, but Bell beaker was native to that region of Europe. The mtDNA from Bell beaker is very much unlike that of the previous Neolithic people of central Europe and very much like neighboring Indo European Corded ware culture which came from the east(click here). The ancestral languages to Italo Celts also came from the east. The origin of most of modern central Europeans ancestry and many western in my opinion was far eastern Europe just 6,000 years ago. There are huge difference in autosomal DNA to of Neolithic farmers of west Europe and modern people, mainly there is much more hunter gatherer ancestry today.

[Fire Haired]

Random picture, could be me if I had a helmet.

Finns have not been oppressed compared to others in Europe so no need to pity, thanks anyway.

And no offence, Finns are genetically more "Indo-European" than most of Europe.

Finns where raiding and traiding in boats armed to the teeth, you can call them what you want, does not make any difference to me.

Finns are non Indo Europeans and have a very small amount of ancestry from Indo European speakers. R1a1a1b1 Z284 was spread in Europe by Corded ware culture, its is very rare in Scandinavia but around 20-30% in Norway-Sweden. R1b L11 may have been spread by Indo Europeans and almost all of the R1b in Finland is found in western Finland and probably from mixing with Swedes. In my opinion Finnish mainly descend from Uralic's who came in the copper or bronze age from Russia or somewhere else in eastern Europe. mtDNA and Y DNA from hunter gatherers of Scandinavia and mtDNA from hunter gatherers of Karelia show little evidence of genetic continuum with the people there today. mtDNA of Finland is mainly European farmer descended. There is mtDNA J1c, J2b1a, J2a1a1a, T2b, H5, H1, K1, K2, etc. like in the rest of Europe. There is a high amount of U5 in Finland but the majority is under U5b1b1a or U5b1b2 both estimated to be about 4,000 years old and I have heard may have originated in eastern Europe. The U5's from Scandinavians and Karelia hunter gatherers was all U5a. There Is close to 0% I2a1 in Scandinavia and hardly any I2a1b, so the first settlers of Scandinavia left hardily any blood in modern Scandinavians. Finnish and Sami though have about the highest about of European hunter gatherer ancestry overall it definitely takes up the majority of their ancestry.