Eurogenes Biogeographic Ancestry Project

[Pallantides]

A Saami with a Nordid phenotype will still have a higher Northeast Asian affinity than a Norwegian with a Lappid phenotype.

What happened to NO4? Some Germans are missing. Maybe they requested withdrawal?

NO4 was NO1's uncle so he was removed.

[Äike]

I find it extremely intriguing that Polako decided to take the Lithuanians as a sample population for "Northern-European". Knowing his theories about the history of European populations, I shouldn't be surprised.

This is one of the reasons why I do not trust these "one-man" genetic researches.

I'll bring an example how this can influence people: Loki told me that Lithuanians and Belorussians are the most Northern-European Europeans.

Now if I made a genetic research and started collecting 23andme raw data, I could take the Scanian(southern-Swedish) population as my Northern-European sample population and then I could claim that Scanians are the most Northern-European Europeans, followed by Danes and Swedes.

Some people take these "one-man" genetic researches very seriously, which I find funny.

[Franz]

A Saami with a Nordid phenotype will still have a higher Northeast Asian affinity than a Norwegian with a Lappid phenotype.

True, the Saami will likely have higher Asian affinity. As for phenotype, that depends on the classifier which is highly subjective. Whether you like it or not, genetics does reflect phenotype. For example, eye shape is genetically inherited.

I find it extremely intriguing that Polako decided to take the Lithuanians as a sample population for "Northern-European". Knowing his theories about the history of European populations, I shouldn't be surprised.

This is one of the reasons why I do not trust these "one-man" genetic researches.

I'll bring an example how this can influence people: Loki told me that Lithuanians and Belorussians are the most Northern-European Europeans.

Now if I made a genetic research and started collecting 23andme raw data, I could take the Scanian(southern-Swedish) population as my Northern-European sample population and then I could claim that Scanians are the most Northern-European Europeans, followed by Danes and Swedes.

Some people take these "one-man" genetic researches very seriously, which I find funny.

Sure, it has its quirks, and it's not perfect. It's still useful and showing patterns that make sense. On the Dodecad project, I don't know all the IDs. From what I observed, many Finns and Russians are showing the highest Northern European component. I noticed a strong correlation with those with the most North European having Northeast Asian and even East Asian. The Estonians scored very high and a few Norwegians and Swedes.

[Aino]

I find it extremely intriguing that Polako decided to take the Lithuanians as a sample population for "Northern-European". Knowing his theories about the history of European populations, I shouldn't be surprised.

Did he? I have used STRUCTURE, and the way it works is that the software finds the clusters all by itself. That is, you don't predefine any population as 'Northern European'. The clusters that the software finds are just given descriptive names afterwards based on the samples that score highest in the category.

My understanding is that ADMIXTURE works similarly. Polako did mention that the new version of ADMIXTURE allows supervised runs, which means that some samples are classified before the run. He didn't say he used that option, and I see no reason why he would have done that.

[Pallantides]

True, the Saami will likely have higher Asian affinity. As for phenotype, that depends on the classifier which is highly subjective. Whether you like it or not, genetics does reflect phenotype. For example, eye shape is genetically inherited.

Where did I inherit my eye shape from?




As you know already I'm NO2 and DOD197 on Dienekes, so you have probably had a chance to look at my results.
A "Lappid" phenotype is not exclusive to Saami, there are plenty of Norwegians who look "Lappish" and have neither Saami or North Eurasian admixture.

[Franz]

Where did I inherit my eye shape from?

How should I know? I could make an educated guess, but they're most likely similar to other Norwegians. Most research is being done on diseases and other health aspects not so much on physical appearance like craniofacial traits.

[Agrippa]

How should I know? I could make an educated guess, but they're most likely similar to other Norwegians. Most research is being done on diseases and other health aspects not so much on physical appearance like craniofacial traits.

Indeed, that will be the future research, then we will know it for sure if being done properly and objectively, open to the public.

[Pallantides]

I have been classified as "Lappid" by many people(Bärin from Skadi even said my mother looked Half Japanese)

[Agrippa]

I have been classified as "Lappid" by many people(Bärin from Skadi even said my mother looked Half Japanese)

Point is, a typical Lappid would, among other things, have never the proportional and other features you have. So at best or worst, like you want to see it, you can only have an influence from that side and as we all know, even the core Lappid type is basically still more on the Europid side and at best/worst borderline.

So any mix implies automatically a very small "foreign influence" and if just certain traits being kept alive, on their own, over generations, this influence can be reduced to almost nothing, yet the origin of specific traits remains as specific - oftentimes at least.

[Franz]

Indeed, that will be the future research, then we will know it for sure if being done properly and objectively, open to the public.

I guess that type of research might be difficult and complex or maybe not. The nose might be affected by hundreds or thousands of genes. The jaw can affect the shape of the nose, and that can be changed by diet. Environmental, social selection and mutations play their roles. For example, mouth breathing or an accident could alter the face.

There was some research on it: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090214162756.htm

Some excerpts:

Facial traits vary among humans, but do tend to group by population. For example, in general, West Africans have wider faces than Europeans and Europeans have longer faces than West Africans.

"There is a strong relationship between genetic ancestry and facial traits," said Shriver. "Using individuals of combined ancestry, European and African, we can see how the target genes alter facial traits."

The researchers reported on a sample of 254 individuals using three-dimensional imaging and measured the distances between specific portions of the face. Each individual had provided a DNA sample.

"We started with 22 landmarks on the faces that could be accurately located in all the images," said Shriver.

From their DNA profiles, Shriver could determine the admixture percentages of each individual, how much of their genetic make up came from each group. He could then compare the genetically determined admixture to the facial feature differences and determine the relative differences from the parental populations.

"This type of study, done on admixed populations shows that each person is a composite of their ancestors and that the range of facial features is a continuum," says Shriver.

Shriver found that there was a very strong statistical correlation between the amounts of admixture and the facial traits.