Eurogenes Biogeographic Ancestry Project

[Pallantides]

Fine scale analysis of Eurogenes' Germanics

As you can see, there are two bar plots featured below, courtesy of a "supervised" run in ADMIXTURE 1.1 focusing on Germanic speakers. The first shows samples from the UK, Low Countries, Germany and Scandinavia, while the second includes mixed individuals, or at least those lacking single country codes. Unfortunately, many eligible project members missed out, but this is something of a test run anyway, so I'll give you a spin next time in a more refined version.

Key: Red = French (North Atlantic), Yellow = Balorussian + Lithuanian (Baltic), Green = Hungarian (Central European), Aqua = Southern & Central Italian + Greek (Southern European), Dark Blue = Chuvash (Volga-Ural), Pink = Basque. See spreadsheets for details here and here.

Basically, the most striking feature is the predominance of the red, a cluster created with the help of a filtered group of French samples from the HGDP. I'm calling it "North Atlantic", because it always peaks in individuals from around that general area. You can see that it's most prevalent here in the UK set, which really doesn't show much of anything else except some "Central European" (courtesy of a filtered Hungarian reference set sporting classic Central European genetic characteristics).

The German group is quite easy to spot, largely thanks to a steep rise in "Baltic" yellow and "Southern European" aqua in their part of the plot. These Germans are from all over Germany, and several have recent ancestry from Prussia and Silesia, so the "Baltic" scores of 20% + make sense. Scandinavians are even more distinctive - just look for the steady level of the blue "Volga-Ural". This is obviously a signal of Finnic ancestry in Scandinavia, and certainly not straight up East or North Eurasian admixture.

Interestingly, the person who describes themselves as German/Italian (DEIT1) shows just over 45% membership in the Southern European cluster. This is obviously much higher than any of the reportedly unmixed Germans.

The pink "French Basque" cluster appears in a choppy, sporadic fashion. It's clearly not a steady feature of any of the Germanic groups featured in this comparison, unlike it is of the Spaniards and Portuguese (see here).

Of all the "Germanics"(not counting the mixed individuals) only SE4 have higher Dark Blue(Chuvash (Volga-Ural) than me


my numbers

Red(North Atlantic) 0.812146
Yellow(Baltic) 0.127156
Green(Central European) 0.00001
Aqua(Southern European) 0.00001
Dark Blue(Volga-Ural) 0.060668
Pink(Basque) 0.00001

[Osweo]

Fine scale analysis of Eurogenes' Germanics

So this is in the same order as the spreadsheet linked to? If so, I'm the sixth one along, mostly red (N Atlantic) with a bit of yellow (Mitteleuropa).

Red(North Atlantic) 0.812146
Yellow(Baltic) 0.127156
Green(Central European) 0.00001
Aqua(Southern European) 0.00001
Dark Blue(Volga-Ural) 0.060668
Pink(Basque) 0.00001

Me;
Red(North Atlantic) 0.900592
Yellow(Baltic) 0.077888
Green(Central European) 0.00001
Aqua(Southern European) 0.00001
Dark Blue(Volga-Ural) 0.02149
Pink(Basque) 0.00001

What the devil? Didn't I get 10% 'Basque' the other day?
And look at my Volzhsko-Uralskost'! Mind aiup oksele...

[quotablepatella]

I note that I'm the only UK member with any real aqua, more like the German members (which makes sense as they are from part of Europe much closer to Italy), although for the others I seem very much typically British.

I have 81.1% French/North Atlantic, which seems fairly normal for the UK.

For the Belorussian and Lithuanian/Baltic cluster, I have 10.3%, which is almost double what I had of this cluster in the last analysis, although I don't know if that is significant in any way.

For Hungarian/Central European and for Basque, I have almost nothing, which isn't out of the ordinary for the UK.

For the Southern & Central Italian and Greek (Southern European), I have 7.05%, so around half of what I had last time, with the Baltic cluster gaining this half from what I can tell.

For Chuvash (Volga-Ural), I have 1.4% and this is probably just due to similarity with Scandinavians.

[Loki]

My results from here:

North Atlantic: 74.17%
Balto-Slavic: 0.00%
Southern European: 17.54%
Volga-Ural (Finnic): 8.29%

I seem to be the only "German" (which I'm not really in the modern sense anyway) who has no Slavic component. In that sense I'm more alike to Britishers, but with somewhat more SE.

[Pallantides]

Seems your more Finnic than me Loki


my numbers from that one

North Atlantic: 81.41%
Balto-Slavic: 12.53%
Southern European: 0.00%
Volga-Ural (Finnic): 6.04%

[Pallantides]

Fine scale analysis of Eurogenes' Scandinavians, Finns and Russians

In this "supervised" ADMIXTURE experiment I assume that Northern and Northeastern Europeans are a mix of just four ancestral groups: Atlantic, Central European, Baltic and Volga-Ural. I picked French samples most similar to those from the Low Countries in my dataset, while the Hungarians I used could pass for Austrians or Germans on many PCA/MDS maps. It's interesting to note the high level of the "Atlantic" component in Baltic Finns, and I put that down to Scandinavian admixture. Similarly, the "Central European" component in some of these Finns is probably of Swedish origin, but it might be German too. In Russia it's most certainly due to Slavic influence.

Key: Red = French + Flemish + Dutch (Atlantic), Light Green = Hungarian (Central European), Aqua = Lithuanian (Baltic), Purple = Chuvash (Eastern European + Siberian). See spreadsheet for details.

My numbers(NO2)

Red 76.85
Light Green 0.00
Aqua 18.50
Purple 4.64

compared with NO1(western Norwegian)

Red 80.52
Light Green 11.38
Aqua 3.74
Purple 4.35

[Don Brick]

Neat! My percentages (FI6).

Red (Atlantic) 45.24 %
Light Green (Central European) 16.10 %
Aqua (Baltic) 25.68 %
Purple (Eastern European + Siberian) 12.96 %

[quotablepatella]

There's a newer version of the Germanic results available -
http://bga101.blogspot.com/2011/03/f...ogenes_07.html


My percentages yesterday -

81.1% French/North Atlantic
10.3% Belorussian and Lithuanian/Baltic cluster
7.05% Southern & Central Italian and Greek (Southern European)
1.40% Chuvash (Volga-Ural)
0.0001% Hungarian/Central European
0.0001% Basque

My percentages today -

83.7% Selected French (North Atlantic) - Average for UK 93.6%
8.7% Belorussian + Lithuanian (Balto-Slavic) - Average for UK 5.1%
5.9% Italian + Greek (Southern European) - Average for UK 0.6%
1.5% Chuvash (Volga-Ural) - Average for UK 0.5%

[Graham]

0.99997% Selected French (North Atlantic)
0.00001% Belorussian + Lithuanian (Balto-Slavic)
0.00001% Italian + Greek (Southern European)
0.00001% Chuvash (Volga-Ural)

Ok for that I am

[Äike]

Yes it´s interesting. Even EESE1 who I assume to be half Estonian half Swedish (Simonsson perhaps? ) scores lower Scandinavian percentages than any of the Finns do. On the other hand his Chuvash component is bigger than that of any of the Estonians which is curious.

I know that Simonsson has never done a genetic test, but I know nothing about EESE1, but I assume that his/her Swedish ancestors are from Northern-Sweden.

Anyhow, the "Baltic force" is still indeed very strong in him.

Practically saying, Estonia, Finland, Scandinavia have had one wave of Indo-European immigrants, the terrain in Estonia and Finland was so marshy and inhospitable for farming, that the Indo-European people nor their languages were successful here.

The "Baltic force" you are talking about is driven up by the very Finnic Lithuanians(Looking at their N1c1 rates and one could say that they're almost like a bunch of Finns).

Polako does his research by taken sample populations, naming them and then telling people who high of a percentage the people got of that sample population.

If he took an Estonian sample population and named it "southern-Finnic", then we would be speaking about "the Finnic force" in the Lithuanians. If the Baltic people/Indo-Europeans would have had an opportunity to leave a strong enough mark here, then I would be speaking an Indo-European language. We can say with completely certainty, that all of Western- and Northern-Europeans didn't speak Indo-European languages originally, but now they do. Thus the climate/terrain/marshiness etc. here must have been very inhospitable for the Indo-Europeans, for us to still speak a language which predates Indo-European in Northern-Europe.

The thing with Polako is that he denies any Finnic/Finno-Ugric presence among the Lithuanians and genetically to him, they are 100% Baltic. While in reality, they are our FinN1c brothers. Divide that "Baltic" into half, with one half being "Baltic" and the other half being "southern-Finnic".

I think that you have read my signature on ForumBiodiversity, it sums up his views quite perfectly.

No professional gene scientist who makes researches in population genetics, doesn't think that the Indo-Europeans were in Finland before the Finno-Ugric people.