Celto- Germanic Heritage! British blood at its best!

[Gooding]

So, shall we take a tour of those wonderful groups that forged the great nations that comprised the British Isles and the admixtures that took place therein? Let's go back, say, a millennium or so and see what the nascent Anglo- Saxon population was doing and how successfully they integrated with the existing Brythonic and Gaelic populations. http://www.academia.edu/1178275/Angl..._55_2011._1-28, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/584960/posts, a link to the ethnogenesis of the Scots: http://skyelander.orgfree.com/scot3.html and a link to the development of the Welsh as a people: http://www.britannia.com/wales/whist1.html. This, combined with the stories of the Cornish and the Manx: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british...ation_01.shtml and http://isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/hist1900/.

We see that the British people both as a whole and as members of their constituent countries have a wonderfully diverse and ancient heritage that goes back 250, 000 years. That heritage includes pre- Celtic settlers, the Celts themselves, the Anglo- Saxons who followed the Roman withdrawal from Britannia, the Vikings and last of all, the Normans, French Huguenots and others who contributed to make Britain the global superpower it was destined to become. The literature and science of Great Britain and Ireland are second to none and the Colonial efforts of the British Empire dispersed many of her people all over the globe, where they founded vibrant countries of their own. I would argue that the British Nation had done as much as any other to disseminate civilization all over the globe and raised the living standards of millions.

The determination and ambition of these remarkable people has led to both unspeakable atrocities against those they regarded as enemies and competitors and to glorious achievements that have enhanced the human experience.

[Neon Knight]

Yeah, they kicked ass

[Neon Knight]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ries-ever.html

DAN SNOW on the marriage that forged the modern world: Top TV historian's fascinating account of how the Union transformed two war-torn nations into one of the greatest countries ever

"Scotland has been a United Kingdom with England and Wales since 1707. That’s since before the U.S. existed. It’s been around twice as long as Germany. Only a handful of countries are older. But no other can match its record. In that time no foreign enemy has ever occupied our capital, no revolution has bloodily swept away the old order and no dictator emerged to pick up the pieces.

The irony is that the United Kingdom’s prospects at birth were grim. Fourteen hundred years ago, the first great home-grown historian, Bede, explained that this island was held in a state of perpetual warfare by at least four different peoples who lived cheek by jowl: the English, Picts, Welsh and Scots. These peoples spent even more time fighting themselves, their petty lordships and kingdoms locked in almost permanent civil war. The people of these islands were weak and divided, they seemed destined to be the victims of outside aggression rather than a people in command of their own destiny.

In 1667, a Dutch fleet sailed up the Medway and ambushed the Royal Navy lying helplessly at anchor, unable to put to sea due to a lack of funds. The Dutch seized the flagship which they towed back to Holland as a prize; her stern still sits like a trophy of war in a museum in Amsterdam. By the time Dutchman William of Orange invaded in 1688, with the English army disintegrated, he found the Treasury empty and the politics dysfunctional. Two years later the French trounced the Royal Navy off Beachy Head, and England’s coast lay at their mercy.

Then something remarkable happened, Scotland joined England and Wales in an Act of Union. These war-torn, penniless states came together, and the world would never be the same again. The explosion of creativity, economic and intellectual activity, scientific experimentation and entrepreneurial activity was a marvel. Freed from the petty concerns of internal competition, the people on this island came together with an energy that left the rest of the world blinking in disbelief and scrambling wildly to emulate it. The national collaboration between England and Scotland was mirrored up and down the land as individual English and Scots joined forces. The result of these thousands of connections was a giant chain reaction that laid the foundations for the modern world.

The Union helped to unlock the vast potential of the British. Just as the Bank of England became the model for new countries building their central banks, so developments in industry, economics and politics would act as beacons that the rest of the world sought to copy. The UK was able to protect its citizens. HMS Victory was the most complex and awesome machine on the planet by the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805. Her hull was sheathed in Welsh copper, her heavy carronades on the upper deck were Scottish and her famous Admiral Nelson, an Englishman.

A medieval chronicler once pointed out that if the Welsh stopped fighting among themselves they would be truly formidable. ‘If they were inseparable, they would be insuperable.’ His comments applied to all the inhabitants of this island. The most inspiring and uplifting aspect of the Union was its ability to bring together people of different languages, ethnicities and locations to work together in harmony."

[Jackson]

Been reading quite a bit about the Iron Age (also some bits about the Bronze age) recently, lots going on. One interesting thing in particular is that the divide between the south, east and central areas (lowlands mostly) and the upland Atlantic west and north - that arguably you can also see in the modern genetic clusters, which follow it very well actually, big red blob of the south-east in particular - goes back a fair way, and is in significant part due to landscape & environment. In particular the climate and altitude of many areas in the north and west makes arable agriculture very risky - ie it's possible in lots of places but small fluctuations in climate that might go fairly unnoticed (or only be a minor problem) in the south-east would cause crop failures in north and west making it risky business to rely on a grain-based economy in those areas, but in the southern, central and eastern lowlands it was the norm (although it was a 'mixed economy'). There's little evidence for large scale grain cultivation in those northern and western areas but you do find some evidence for the consumption of those products, so probably people practiced small-scale arable agriculture but relied primarily on a pastoral economy (generally sheep and cattle, although in many areas cattle made up the vast majority of the diet, for example in some parts of Wales). Also many of these areas were 'aceramic' in contrast to the south-eastern regions and also interestingly to the northern and western isles. Although in certain conditions well made wooden and leather objects have been found, so no reason to assume they were more technologically primitive, but that it wasn't necessary or viable.

Also interesting are the different modes of settlement from the middle to late iron age in particular, f.e in the east it was mostly open farmsteads, small settlements or enclosures with the occasional 'hillfort', while in the south-centre, south-west and west there were many 'traditional' hillforts, while in the far south-west of what's now England and in the south-west of Wales 'rounds' (small enclosed farmsteads) were extremely common, but not so much larger settlements. Up in Scotland Brochs and Wheelhouses were common in particularly on the Isles from the middle of the Iron Age onwards, as well as crannogs (lake/marsh settlements) and duns.

I suppose it chimes really with ancient accounts saying those near the coast (in the south-eastern lowland zone mostly) were more grain cultivators and had close links with northern Gaulish groups, while those further inland survived 'on meat and milk' (suggests a pastoral or heavily animal-based economy anyway).

A lot of the enclosures in southern areas in particular were roundhouses within rectangular or sub-rectangular enclosures, and iirc many sites had rectangular grain storage buildings (four post granaries), so the choice of round architecture throughout the isles at least for the central building of the homestead must have been a cultural preference i would have thought, rather than a purely technological thing, a building tradition.

Also was interesting reading about how the elite were thought to have used chariots - more as utility vehicles - ie they would ride them into battle, dismount and fight and foot and then if they got into a particularly dangerous situation or needed to move along elsewhere or take a break - they would retreat to the chariot and move on.

And apparently they were fond of wearing lots of bright clothing (and jewellery if they had it), but that's not surprising.

Just splurging out some random bits i read recently, can't remember all of it though.

[aksakallicocuk]

Doesn't france,south germany,austria,switzerland also celtic-germanic mix?

[Graham]

Doesn't france,south germany,austria,switzerland also celtic-germanic mix?

Yes.

[Leliana]

I feel a bit addressed. I'm most likely a Germanic-Celtic mix, too, as my family orginates and still lives almost in the center of the old Celtic Halstatt culture...and the Celts didn't vanish over night by a magic spell when the Germanic tribes came. The Germanic element is dominant for sure, but it would be stupid to assume that there's nothing Celt in me.

[Valmont]

Doesn't france,south germany,austria,switzerland also celtic-germanic mix?

Yes they are

[Gooding]

I feel a bit addressed. I'm most likely a Germanic-Celtic mix, too, as my family orginates and still lives almost in the center of the old Celtic Halstatt culture...and the Celts didn't vanish over night by a magic spell when the Germanic tribes came. The Germanic element is dominant for sure, but it would be stupid too assume that there's nothing Celt in me.

That's very true! I'm also of the opinion that people from the Benelux countries are also Celto- Germanic? I think the Gaulish input might have radiated beyond the borders of modern France. Absolutely, I'm sure that continental Celts survived as a genetic component of the German people every bit as much as the insular Celtic component survived in the British.

[Graham]

The difference between Scots, irish, English, Germans, Danes, Dutch, Norwegians, Swedish, Belgians etc.. In North West Europe is small genetically.