Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

[Herr Abubu]

Oh, and as for Vlachs,

RO = Romanian, ARO = different Aromanian/Vlach groups, two first from Albania, penultimate two from Macedonia and last from Romania


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...5.00251.x/full

Vlachs vary depending on where they're from, something anyone with one idea in their head would have known. Considering that Slavic presence was much, much higher than Vlach presence, it's really stupid claiming it must be due to Vlachs. You'd know there were tonnes of Slavs in Epirus by the fact that so much of the toponymy, both in the Greek part and Albanian part (I II). Maps by German linguist Max Vasmer. Even if you were completely ignorant of history, you'd realize that there must have been a large presence of Slavs in Albania when something like a third of the toponyms in Albania are Slavic, most of those being in the south. That is, if you're not one of the Albanians on this forum. In other words, unless you are immaculately stupid and unfair.

[Lek]

Vlachs and Albanians are the same people, with additional foreign input.

[catgeorge]

Dude- you are the one who has absolutely no clue. Did you see that the person in Greece matches perfectly someone from Poland in a clade that is 2200 years old??? Can you understand that the Neolithic is thousands of years older than that???? Yes, I know Neolithic expansion happened in Greece - but this clade is NOT related to it, and the evidence is that first appeared around the time of the Roman Empire expansion. Geezus- you're dense as fuck. Your little MS paint map is irrelevant.


I can only conclude that you are a. I2a1b2 and b. Completely delusional as far as the genetic impact of Slavic peoples in Balkans ( for some bogus nationalist reasons).





I'm an idiot who pretends to be intelligent ? What are you? A degenerate who knows he's an imbecile???
Sure, laugh it up. It's natural for you to share such alliances - you and dear cat George almost certainly share a Slavic -speaking ancestor in the past 1200 years. Bros for life.

It is impossible for someone to be this dogmatic and bereft of any braincells whatsoever. I am beginning to believe you smoke crack.

Here is a few more sources.

The gentic signature of Neolithic Greece (recommended)

http://amsdottorato.unibo.it/3628/1/...Paolo_tesi.pdf

In order to gain insights in the past demographic dynamics of the two Greek
populations analysed a Bayesian coalescent approach was used using Y-chromosomes
STR data. The adoption of agriculture should have favoured a rapid and strong
demographic expansion which probably has left a detectable genetic footprint
(Ammerman & Cavalli-Sforza 1984; Boyle & Renfrew 2000). Estimates of time since
expansion points towards an earlier adoption of agriculture in Euboea, approximately
8,8Kya whereas for Korinthia the estimate was slightly more recent (7Kya) dating more
closely to the late Neolithic horizon. The same Bayesian approach was also used to
estimate the times since expansion of the main Greek haplogroups in order to assess the
haplogroups that could be associated with the Neolithic transition in Greece. The only
haplogroup that showed times since expansion compatible with the Neolithic is J2aM410
which has already been associated with Neolithic transition by several other
studies (Sengupta et al., 2006; King et al., 2008; Battaglia et al., 2009). All the other
haplogroups shows expansion dates consistent with the late Neolithic/initial Bronze Age
horizon (R1b-M269 and E1b-V13) and the initial/late Bronze Age horizon (R1a-M17,
G2a-P15, I2-M438, J1-M267 and J2b-M102).

Y-Chromosome Diversity in Modern Bulgarians: New Clues about Their Ancestry
Sena Karachanak , Viola Grugni , Simona Fornarino, Desislava Nesheva, Nadia Al-Zahery, Vincenza Battaglia, Valeria Carossa, Yordan Yordanov, Antonio Torroni, Angel S. Galabov, Draga Toncheva , Ornella Semino
Published: March 6, 2013http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0056779

aplogroup Frequency Distribution

From the total of 75 binary markers genotyped, 50 turned out to be informative. The most parsimonious relationships and the frequencies of the corresponding haplogroups are presented in Figure 2.

Western Eurasian haplogroups were found to encompass almost the entire Bulgarian Y-chromosome pool. Contributions from Central Asia (Hg C-M217) [40], [41], Northern Eurasia (Hg N-M231) and South West Asia (Hg Q-M242 derivatives, Hg L-M61 and Hg R-M124) [32], [42] were detected at almost negligible frequencies.

The most prevalent haplogroups in Bulgarians are I-M423 (20.2%) and E-V13 (18.1%). They represent the autochthonous and nearly endemic sub-clades of I-P37 and E-M78 in Southeastern Europe, respectively [34], [43]. Third in frequency is the common Eurasian haplogroup R-M17, which was found in 17.5% of Bulgarians, with 42.9% of them belonging to the European specific R-M458 sub-clade [36]. Haplogroup R-L23*, the eastern branch of the western Eurasian R-M269 haplogroup [37], relates the paternal ancestry of 5.2% of Bulgarians, representing nearly half of the M269 derived Y chromosomes. Next in frequency is Hg I-M253 (4.3%), which accounts for the majority of haplogroup I-M170 individuals in Northern Europe [44], [45]. It is followed by two J-M172 sub-branches, namely J-M241 and J-M530, observed at a frequency of 3.8% and 2.4%, respectively. The rest of the phylogenetically terminal haplogroups harboured frequency values of less than 2%.

These are four separate sources from four different researches - to cut a long story rt as I understand you have comprehension issues. I2a is proto European from first or old Europe most probably with J1. It was there before the neolithic expansion of E & G

[Scholarios]

It is impossible for someone to be this dogmatic and bereft of any braincells whatsoever. I am beginning to believe you smoke crack.

How long did it take you to sniff out those snippets which have absolutely nothing to do with the topic?


I understand that some I could potentially be in the Balkans pre-Slavs. But there is this little thing called subclades which you just do not understand, I guess. Some of the ones I posted are specifically linked to medieval slavic invasions. Can you answer- exactly how a subclade that was born 2200 years ago in Poland could have anything to do with Greek neolithic, Thracians, Illyrians? Greeks, Albanians, Vlachs have it because the Slavs brought it. End of story. Now continue the cognitive dissonance without me.

"""Progress in the field of y-DNA testing (Y-DNA sequencing) allowed to confirm that previously done TMRCA estimates for I2-L621(Dinaric) were accurate and I2-DIN(L621) is young.
There are 90+ SNPs on the level of L621 what indicates long bottleneck that lasted through Neolithic, bronze age and big part of iron age period. So the whole Dinaric branch stems from one man who lived around the year of foundation of Rome in Central-Eastern Europe, most likely as a part of proto-Slavic people.

Frequency is meaningless and calculations show that diversity and TMRCA of I2-L621 decreases in the southerly direction. So the frequency in Balkans(Bosnia in particular) is a result of relatively recent founder effect, that happened at start of Slavic presence there and later strengthened regionally. It was just a chance, that Bosnia now is 60% I2, not 60% R1a.

As for now, L621* is found only in Poland and Western Ukraine, Polish haplotype was sequenced. The tree of Dinaric branch is available here http://www.yfull.com/tree/I-L621/

So yes, it's slavic. Very young age allows for ethnic specification of this branch.""

Ok, I am exhausted from all this anthrotarding.

[Wrong]

It's only 40 samples on average for each population in that haplomap.

I'll be generous and state 500+ samples atleast or bullshit. Most of those Vlachs tested were prbably related or from the same villages which provided sample bias.

[Herr Abubu]

It's only 40 samples on average for each population in that haplomap.

I'll be generous and state 500+ samples atleast or bullshit. Most of those Vlachs tested were prbably related or from the same villages which provided sample bias.

From a statistics pov, the sample size isn't particularly bad or anything. The 500+ number is completely arbitrary. It also doesn't change anything whether Vlachs are 100% I2a or only 50% I2a for reasons I've already explained. Stop coping.

[Dema]

You do not want to listen because you have limited thinking capacity. I2a1 has been in Europe forever. Its one of the proto splits from cro magnons in Europe. The map is not mine it is direct from the sciencemag if you cared to look at the link.

I would not care if I shared slavic nor albanian ancestery, you are the only one that wants and needs it in typical marxist fashion - then twist it in a nationalistic ideology without looking at the facts. Enough tired of your limited brain capacity.

Whaat you are not R1b afterall, are you really I2a1???

[Wrong]

From a statistics pov, the sample size isn't particularly bad or anything. The 500+ number is completely arbitrary. It also doesn't change anything whether Vlachs are 100% I2a or only 50% I2a for reasons I've already explained. Stop coping.

It is, you are the one cherrypicking the results. It's not showing the whole picture.

We have Albanian Gheg tribal ftdna results with J2b2 majority despite Ghegs scoring more EV13 in general.

[Kelmendasi]

It is, you are the one cherrypicking the results. It's not showing the whole picture.

We have Albanian Gheg tribal ftdna results with J2b2 majority despite Ghegs scoring more EV13 in general.

Mainly the North-eastern Clans seem to be scoring the most J2b2

[Laberia]

You do not want to listen because you have limited thinking capacity. I
I would not care if I shared slavic nor albanian ancestery, you are the only one that wants and needs it in typical marxist fashion - then twist it in a nationalistic ideology without looking at the facts. Enough tired of your limited brain capacity.

Aaaaaa, just perfect. Every word at the right place. Keep crushing his cuman scull. Belive me, i know that feeling.