The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe

[Wrong]

They don't cluster with N.Italians and not even close to Iberians, wtf are you talking about? They plot like Tuscans or more farmer shifted Bulgarians. Basically where they should be given that these samples are from Bronze Age Bulgaria and Croatia. So far evidence suggests that most modern Balkans are North Euro shifted compared to the Bronze Age.

I agree man, I take it you are referring to South Slavic Balkans. The non-Slavic speakers remained more or less the same, perhaps except the Romanians.



LMFAO @ Balkan non-Slavs and their unconquered mountain-bastions since the Bronze Age.

[Bosniensis]

Well I haven't tested myself, but I do come from a region where I2 is predominantly strong.

[Rethel]

Well I haven't tested myself, but I do come from a region where I2 is predominantly strong.

Doesn't matter. You can be verbaly anything.
You are who you are, and the statistics have no place here.
Btw in majority cases, people have different results, as they thought, what they were.

[XenophobicPrussian]

They don't cluster with N.Italians and not even close to Iberians, wtf are you talking about? They plot like Tuscans or more farmer shifted Bulgarians. Basically where they should be given that these samples are from Bronze Age Bulgaria and Croatia. So far evidence suggests that most modern Balkans are North Euro shifted compared to the Bronze Age.

Do I really have to point this out to you?

Here's a PCA with the same modern populations clearly labeled:



The PCA from this paper:



They clearly cluster with N. Italians(you could argue inbetween N. Italians and Tuscans I guess, and like I pointed out, 2/8 have a shift towards modern Bulgarians, but still are much closer to N. Italians).

The Malak_Preslavets samples are also early Bronze Age, they are very clearly with Iberians.

If you also combine that with this PCA has shrinkage(basically, when the ancient samples are pulled to the center when you do a PCA incorrectly with modern populations, this isn't something I just made up, look it up), all ancient samples are shifted to the center, in this case south-east, when Polako releases his PCA plot you will see this(although I'm sure you'll accuse him of fake propaganda or whatever), meaning the Bronze Age Balkanites are even more SW and cluster inbetween N. Italians and Iberians, and the early BA Malak_Preslavets would be among the most northern shifted modern Iberians. For example, the Bell Beakers aren't in the correct spot, and the HGs are much too close to modern populations(you'd think modern Balts are 90% Ukrainian_HG when looking at this), the European farmers are also way too far from Sardinians. For a PCA without shrinkage and the Bell Beakers in their proper spots, look at the PCA from the new Bell Beaker paper.

Fyi, we also already have a BA Montenegrin, clustered between Iberia/N Italy.



I'm sure you think that's all bullshit, but even without that, they still cluster with N. Italians, not modern Balkanites/Bulgarians.

So far evidence suggests that most modern Balkans are North Euro shifted compared to the Bronze Age.

Believe it or not, I wasn't even trying to get at that, but no, you're wrong. Only true for Croatians/Slovenians/Bosnians. If you take any Balto-Slav or any LMBA steppe person and mix him with any of these BA Balkanites you don't arrive anywhere near Bulgarians, they aren't anywhere near that cline. You'd need the Slavs to be Yamnaya for a N. Italian/Tuscan to Bulgaria cline, and obviously they weren't, which means there is extra admixture there in modern Bulgarians.

The good news(well, it wouldn't be good news for me personally, unless I stopped denigrating Turks and other MENA populations and became a Caucasoid supremacist rather than a "white" supremacist) for you and Faklon is there's now evidence of post-neolithic Middle-Eastern migrations into Europe that seems to have the extra Natufian/CHG not present in neolithic farmers, which means your extra MENA doesn't necessarily have to come from Turks or Byzantine immigration, which in turn means you still coulda wuz ancien Greeks n shit.

[Petros Houhoulis]

All these Gheg haplogroups... Feels good.

Feels good to be... Croatian???

[Jana]

Feels good to be... Croatian???

Croatia was proto-Illyrian zone back than, it makes sense for them to paternally descend from there. In the dark ages big chunk of surviving Illyrian population retreated south/to mountains due to barbarian raids.

[Rethel]

P.E.R. - it is in croatian? Pred Era Rożdestwa

[Insuperable]

Do I really have to point this out to you?

Here's a PCA with the same modern populations clearly labeled:



The PCA from this paper:



They clearly cluster with N. Italians(you could argue inbetween N. Italians and Tuscans I guess, and like I pointed out, 2/8 have a shift towards modern Bulgarians, but still are much closer to N. Italians).

The Malak_Preslavets samples are also early Bronze Age, they are very clearly with Iberians.

If you also combine that with this PCA has shrinkage(basically, when the ancient samples are pulled to the center when you do a PCA incorrectly with modern populations, this isn't something I just made up, look it up), all ancient samples are shifted to the center, in this case south-east, when Polako releases his PCA plot you will see this(although I'm sure you'll accuse him of fake propaganda or whatever), meaning the Bronze Age Balkanites are even more SW and cluster inbetween N. Italians and Iberians, and the early BA Malak_Preslavets would be among the most northern shifted modern Iberians. For example, the Bell Beakers aren't in the correct spot, and the HGs are much too close to modern populations(you'd think modern Balts are 90% Ukrainian_HG when looking at this), the European farmers are also way too far from Sardinians. For a PCA without shrinkage and the Bell Beakers in their proper spots, look at the PCA from the new Bell Beaker paper.

Fyi, we also already have a BA Montenegrin, clustered between Iberia/N Italy.



I'm sure you think that's all bullshit, but even without that, they still cluster with N. Italians, not modern Balkanites/Bulgarians.


Believe it or not, I wasn't even trying to get at that, but no, you're wrong. Only true for Croatians/Slovenians/Bosnians. If you take any Balto-Slav or any LMBA steppe person and mix him with any of these BA Balkanites you don't arrive anywhere near Bulgarians, they aren't anywhere near that cline. You'd need the Slavs to be Yamnaya for a N. Italian/Tuscan to Bulgaria cline, and obviously they weren't, which means there is extra admixture there in modern Bulgarians.

The good news(well, it wouldn't be good news for me personally, unless I stopped denigrating Turks and other MENA populations and became a Caucasoid supremacist rather than a "white" supremacist) for you and Faklon is there's now evidence of post-neolithic Middle-Eastern migrations into Europe that seems to have the extra Natufian/CHG not present in neolithic farmers, which means your extra MENA doesn't necessarily have to come from Turks or Byzantine immigration, which in turn means you still coulda wuz ancien Greeks n shit.

Here is a Bronze Age Dalmatian sample JAZ1. Check the number of SNPs used (less than 10 000). I have read that two ancient Montenegrin samples also had low snp count. Is 10 000 SNPs enough for confident analysis?

[Insuperable]

Just like it should be. Wota Fuq will be happy, he now has proof he indigenious to his homeland!
I just hope I2-dinaric will be finally found somwhere in European ancient samples too....so I can tell my father with 100% certanity what his origins are

I don't know what is my L23 subclade. Maybe it is R1b-Z2103, maybe one of those Balkan clusters, maybe it is one of those eastern European L-23 clusters like that of Silesian, maybe not.

[Jana]

I don't know what is my L23 subclade. Maybe it is R1b-Z2103, maybe one of those Balkan clusters, maybe it is one of those eastern European L-23 clusters like that of Silesian, maybe not.

https://www.yseq.net/
You can get defining SNP for 18-20 USD. It would be cool to find out your exact branch.