The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe

[Dick]

So, learn polish, and we'll talk like humans... Oh, I forgot, that you are unable to learn...

Why would I bother learning Polish when Magnolia can translate what you are trying to say to me anyway.

[Rethel]

Why would I bother learning Polish when Magnolia can translate what you are trying to say to me anyway.

Because one day, Mahnolia can dissappear

[XenophobicPrussian]

XenophobicBOrussian is right about projection bias but he muddles things when he starts talking about "southern" this and "northern" that. He should stick to talking about roughly what the axes seem to show, Basal-less vs Basal-more and ANE-less vs ANE-more.

Here you can see where those "southern"-looking Hungarian and Balkan (Croatian-Bulgarian) Bronze and Iron Age samples would roughly fall in a PCA with no projection bias ("PC scores of projected individuals are often biased toward zero relative to individuals used to compute PCs. This has the effect of shrinking the plot of projected data." - http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...012258a.html):



Black circle = ancient samples, plotting roughly with some Spaniards - North Italians - some Tuscans
Red = central-northern Greeks - Albanians - Bulgarians
Green = Croatians - Hungarians
Black lines = delineating where Sardinians and EEF are

To get to the South Balkans, and Bronze-Iron Age Albania-Greece-Aegean remain unsampled mind you, you need something extra that pushes you towards ANE-more then something that pushes you towards Basal-less for the Northern Balkans - or both at the same time for the latter; and even for the earlier group, it was probably a bit of tug-of-war since PCA simplifies these things. We can call those populations "Anatolians" and "Slavs" in a generic sense, considering historical ties with the Balkans, while including in them all sorts of populations that have similar proportions. We also have no clue when and how gradually this shift happened, yet.

Another interesting question is why XBOX is spending so much time on this instead of worrying about the comparatively much more massive population turnovers happening elsewhere. Presumably a combination of huwhite is right and his hatred of the WOP and the ANE! But psychoanalyzing aside, when a man is right - a man is right.

Also, please someone tell LABERIA that he very likely has prosfig blood in him, thanks.

Yes, in order to get to modern Bulgarians from BA Bulgarians you would need something extremely ANE heavy, like Yamnaya, something similar existed in Scythians during this time period. However, modern Balto-Slavs, Corded Ware/LMBA steppe populations+Turks or a middle-eastern population also does the trick. I don't argue for either or, the end result is more important to me than the how.

I appreciate the intellectual honesty and fair analysis.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Btw, here's the properly done PCA from the Bell Beaker paper I was referring to. Very different from this one.



The positions of North Italian Bell Beakers are rather disappointing(basically implies the Bell Beakers who migrated there mixed right away didn't stay unmixed long enough to remain an "elite" like my WE WUZ VIKANGZ ass would want), but I'll reserve judgement for when we get more samples, Bell Beaker migration wasn't the last Indo-European migration into the Appenine Peninsula before the Roman Republic either.

[Voskos]

Where I2a1b most likely expanded from:

indeed, however there was also some E in ukraine before slavic expansion.

[jingorex]

sigh...again no G1...

[Rethel]

sigh...again no G1...

G2 isn't enuagh for you?

[ADonkeyBrain]

Xeno, forget the Turks my man. There's nothing that points to "Turks". The "Anatolian" part of it has to do with the CHG/Iran_Neo-heavy pre-Turkic populations of the area since the Chalcolithic.

Anatolian Turkish ancestry doesn't exist in Balkanites in any decent amounts, just compare their Central-East Asian components to the Balkans. Though I'm sure all those Bulgars, Pechenegs, Uz and whatever else left the tiny Eastern components you find sometimes, especially in the Northeast Balkans.

"(pre-Turkic) Anatolians" and "Slavs", that's what it looks like so far but we'll see.

[Voskos]

Xeno, forget the Turks my man. There's nothing that points to "Turks". The "Anatolian" part of it has to do with the CHG/Iran_Neo-heavy pre-Turkic populations of the area since the Chalcolithic.

Anatolian Turkish ancestry doesn't exist in Balkanites in any decent amounts, just compare their Central-East Asian components to the Balkans. Though I'm sure all those Bulgars, Pechenegs, Uz and whatever else left the tiny Eastern components you find sometimes, especially in the Northeast Balkans.

"(pre-Turkic) Anatolians" and "Slavs", that's what it looks like so far but we'll see.

yes, hellenthal's study from 2014 has Greeks as 63% Cypriot+ 37%Slavic

[jingorex]

G2 isn't enuagh for you?

Maybe i'm just being a G snob? I would really like to see more concrete data on my G1 tho, until i do i remain convinced that i was engineered by ancient aliens.