Bosniaks raise their kids with Turkish culture

[Dzihadovic]

lol again only insults. You would think someone of your age would act more mature. No historian would back up what im saying? Everything i said was historically accurate thats why i still didnt hear from any of you "bosniaks" denying facts about what i said. You only throw insults because you dont know have anything else left.

You started with the insults when you called us Serbs/Croats. Frankly that's worse then calling someone an idiot.
How do you know how old I am?
I specifically said no serious historian. The ones that would are those nationalist "historians" from both sides who twist history in an attempt to prove that Bosnia was either Serb or Croat. The funny thing is that in doing so the Croat "historians" prove that we weren't Serb and the Serb "historians" prove that we weren't Croat.

[Dzihadovic]

Hmm, interesting how there is no mention of bosniaks here. I wonder why?
Oh, right because DAI wasnt a reliable source, right?

You know what else is interesting. How when medieval Bosniaks start writing their own sources, about themselves, they specifically don't mention a Croat presence in Bosnia and don't call themselves Croats.
I wonder why?

[Dzihadovic]

You my friend are the descendant of cuckolds who happened to live on land under the control Croat rulers and thus you call yourself Croat today.

[Cool Story Bro]

It's actually not Slavonians were all considered to be the same people by the Byzantines. The concept of Croatian and Serbian identities arose out of the divide in the way in which Christian rites were performed by those more Greek vs more Latim influenced. Bosnian identity I know less about, but I believe it arose later out of the Islamification of Bosnia.

And no, Catholic =/= Croat, but Croatian identity arose due to the split in rites of pre-schism Chalcedonian Christianity.

Byzantines knew the difference, they were different tribes.

Most what is known about the early history of White Croats comes from the work by Byzantine emperor Constantine VII, De Administrando Imperio (10th century). The 30th chapter "Story of the province of Dalmatia" recounts:

"These same Croats arrived as refugees to the emperor of the Romaioi Heraclius before the Serbs came as refugees to the same Emperor Heraclius, at that time when the Avars had fought and expelled from those parts the Romani... Now, by the command of the Emperor Heraclius, these same Croats fought and expelled the Avars from those parts, and, by mandate of Heraclius the emperor they settled down in that same country of the Avars, where they now dwell. These same Croats had the father of Porga for their archon at that time... (It should be known) that ancient Croatia, also called "white", is still unbaptized to this day, as are also its neighboring Serbs. They muster fewer horsemen as well as fewer foot than baptized Croatia, because they are constantly plundered by the Franks and Turks and Pechenegs. Nor do they have either sagēnai or kondourai or merchant ships, because they live far away from sea; it takes 30 days of travel from the place where they live to the sea. The sea to which they comedown to after 30 days, is that which is called dark".

In the 31st chapter "Of the Croats and of the country they now dwell in" is written:

"The Croats at that time were dwelling beyond Bagibareia (usually considered Bavaria), where the Belocroats are now. From them split off a family, namely of five brothers, Kloukas and Lobelos and Kosentzis and Mouchlo and Chrobatos, and two sisters, Touga and Bouga, who came with their folk to Dalmatia and found this land under the rule of the Avars. After they had fought one another for some years, the Croats prevailed and killed some of the Avars and the remainder they compelled to be subject to them... The rest of the Croats stayed over near Francia, and are nowcalled the Belocroats, that is, the White Croats, and have their own archon; they are subject to Otto, the great king of Francia, which is also Saxony, and are unbaptized, and intermarry and are friendly with the Avars. From the Croats who came to Dalmatia, a part split off and took rule of Illyricum and Pannonia. They too had an independent archon, who would maintain friendly contact, though through envoys only, with the archon of Croatia".

[Gold-Shekel]

I already told you once if you can prove me wrong with actual historical facts im ready to listen otherwise stop citing me. All your posts were just insults without any arguments.

Your arguments are "We say you don't exist so you don't exist", I say Ivana got beaten up by her dad because she had sex with a Bosniak so Bosniaks exist.

[Jana]

It's actually not Slavonians were all considered to be the same people by the Byzantines. The concept of Croatian and Serbian identities arose out of the divide in the way in which Christian rites were performed by those more Greek vs more Latim influenced. Bosnian identity I know less about, but I believe it arose later out of the Islamification of Bosnia.

And no, Catholic =/= Croat, but Croatian identity arose due to the split in rites of pre-schism Chalcedonian Christianity.

Croatian name spread to Slavonia from Dalmatia and Western Bosnia after the settlement. Ofcourse the people living in those lands were not only Croats but the mixture of other Slavic tribes and Romanized natives, and some surviving Goths.
Bosnia not a fake creation and Kingdom of Bosnia existed in middle ages and so did medieval Bosnians but it did not contain all the areas of modern Bosnia and Herzegovina, which western border is result of Ottoman conquests, not ethnical or historical one. That pretty much it.

[Böri]

Bosniaks you should thank me. You are just 2 millions peoples in BiH but with my threads you became hit in the forum

[Wadaad]

Nothing wrong in Turkey also kids who learn English, Russian, Arabic etc. The thread is for Bosniensis who said Turks should drop being Turkic, deny themselves and try to become 'European Romans,

He did not say that...he just said that the legacy of Rome is carried by now Islamic peoples...Turks, North Africans, Levantines, and that modern "Europe" is usurping this Roman legacy as modern Europe is mostly a descendant of Franks

[Cool Story Bro]

You know what else is interesting. How when medieval Bosniaks start writing their own sources, about themselves, they specifically don't mention a Croat presence in Bosnia and don't call themselves Croats.
I wonder why?

Bosnia was a province in Croatia just like Dalmatia, Slavonia etc.
After Croatia entered into personal union with Hungary they let the provincial state of Bosnia have their rulers called ban's thus why the name Banovina Bosnia.

Croatian rulers in Bosnia:
Ban Borić (Slavonian nobleman from Croatia, catholic) was the first ban which was subject of the the Croat-Hungarian king
Ban Kulin (Slavonian nobleman, catholic) was speaking Croatian
Ban Stjepan Kulinić (son of Kulin) was heavily relying on the Croat-Hungarian crown. Worth mentioning is that the name Stjepan is a tradional Croatian name.
Ban Matej Ninoslav (Catholic, Matej tradional Croatian name) was accused of heresy. After the Pope send his envoy he declared himself Catholic.
Ban Prijezda I. (catholic, vassal of Croat-Hungarian crown)
Ban Prijezda II. (catholic)

Forming of a Croatian-Serbian dynasty:
Ban Stjepan I. called Kotroman (founder of dynasty Kotromanić) married daughter of Serbian king Dragutin hoping to have strong allies on the east. Croatian strongest noble familly Šubići didnt like that allience so they overthrow him from ruling the Banovina Bosnia and started rulling by themself.

Croatian:
Ban Pavao I. Šubić (Šubić noble family) Bribirski takes the title: Ban of Croatia, and Dalmatia, and the lord of Bosnia
Ban Mladen I. (brother of Pavao) killed by rebels
Ban Mladen II. (son of Mladen) got defetead in the Battle of Bliska by the son of the Stjepan I. (Kotromanić), Stjepan II. and takes again the rule Banovina Bosnia.

Croatian+Serbian:
Ban Tvrtko I. (nephew of Stjepan II., Kotromanić, Catholic) declared himself king of Bosnia but Pope (who in that had the only right to crown a king) refused such thing. He was still a vassal of the Croat-Hungarian crown altrough his self proclaimed title.
Stjepan Dabiša (nephew of Sjepan I., Kotromanić dynasty)
Stjepan Ostoja (Kotromanić dynasty) basicly Kotromanić are mixed serbs-croats thus why they usually have Croatian and Serbian names in them)
Stjepan Ostojić (Kotromanić)
Tvrtko II. (Kotromanić, son of Tvrtko I.) Turks in this period started already heavily attacking Bosnia. Sultan Murat II. attacked Bosnia twice with huges armies. Later on Tvrtko II. was forced to pay Danak. He asked the Croat-Hungarian union for assistance.

King Stjepan Tomaš (Kotromanić, Catholic)
Stjepan Tomašević (Kotromanić)

Conclusion: Kotromanić were a mix between Croatian and Serbian families.

Just before the Turks started consantly attacking Bosnia and Herzegovina this is how the religions were looking like:
Catholics: around 750.000 (just proving my point of how this was dominantly Croatian province)
krstjans (basicly a mix of Catholicism and Orthodoxy, Rome and Orthodox called them heretics): 80.000
Orthodox: 50.000

[Bonpal]

some friends of mine were in bosnia last year. they crossed the bridge at mostar. they told me they saw kids dressed up as turks.