Iron Age and Early Medieval Polish DNA coming soon

[Peterski]

But Wojewoda from ABF is ancestral to these Goths (he is I1 Z63+ S2078+ L1237-):

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1304224

Maybe L1237 originated in Poland, south of the Baltic Sea, from Wojewoda's branch.

Wojewoda is an ethnic Polish user.

Wojewoda doesn't know if he should call himself Gothorum Rex or Pater:

[Rethel]

First Thraell.

[Peterski]

First Thraell.

You need to have a duel with him, to solve this dispute.

[Rethel]

You need to have a duel with him, to solve this dispute.

According to Boziewicz's Codex thraells have
no honorary ability, so the duell is impossible.

[Lucas]

Wojewoda doesn't know if he should call himself Gothorum Rex or Pater:

Nope. He is just simply nothing.

Michał from anthrogenica

Whatever is his subclade under S2078 (do you know his specific subclade downstream of S2078?), you cannot say that his subclade is "older and ancestral" to those from the paper. These are simply two parallel subclades descending from a common S2078+ ancestor.

To be classified as S2078* one would need to be tested for all known SNPs/subclades directly under S2078, and he probably hasn't been tested for any SNPs downstream of S2078 other than L1237 (not even for S2077 or Y2245, mutations defining large clades downstream of S2078 but upstream of L1237). Even if he was indeed S2078*, this would not make his modern lineage ancestral to subclade L1237, and you need to keep in mind that the common ancestor of Wojewoda and those ancient L1237 people (ie. their most recent common paternal ancestor) was ancestral to all of them the same way. (In fact, that ancestor was more closely related to those ancient "Poles/Goths", but this is only because these are ancient samples).

If I was tested for just two mutations, let's say L1085 (from the A0-T level) and M343 (defining R1b), so my results would be L1085+ M343-, this would not make "my lineage" ancestral to all R1b people (including yourself).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bear in mind, that author of this paper is Piontek. Until now greatest autochtonist in Poland.

So if he said:

I1 is the most common haplogroup in present day Scandinavia, and it is found in all places invaded by ancient Germanic tribes and Vikings."

It was probably hardest thing for him, which he said recently. So we can be 100% sure this particular I1 is Germanic. He knows better Tomenable. He is the author.

[Peterski]

I1-M253 frequencies in some populations:

Kashubians -------- 13,06% (35/268)
Greater Poles ----- 10,45% (21/201)
Lusatian Sorbs ---- 9,76% (12/123)
Kociewie ----------- 8,23% (13/158)
Kurpie ------------- 6,96% (11/158)
Upper Silesians --- 6,25% (3/48)
Lesser Poles ------- 5,66% (12/212)
Mazovian nobility - 5,48% (8/146)
Wrocław ----------- 4,04% (4/99)

[Rethel]

It was probably hardest thing for him, which he said recently. So we can be 100% sure this particular I1 is Germanic. He knows better Tomenable. He is the author.

But he can follow just the logic of many TAtards,
that if I1 has the biggest % in Scandia, then it
has to be of viking descendency.

It has not to be.

Poland has almost as big I1 population as Sweden, and much bigger
than Denmark and Norway - the same as they both together. Much
more I1 had France, Germany, Russia and England... Even a Holland,
ITALY!!! and UKRAINE!!! has bigger population of I1 than Denmark or
Norway. It has come from somewhere, and I do not belive, that it all
came from Scandinavia. Partialy, yes, but not all.

[Lucas]

But he can follow just the logic of many TAtards,
that if I1 has the biggest % in Scandia, then it
has to be of viking descendency.

It has not to be.

Poland has almost as big I1 population as Sweden, and much bigger
than Denmark and Norway - the same as they both together. Much
more I1 had France, Germany, Russia and England... Even a Holland,
ITALY!!! and UKRAINE!!! has bigger population of I1 than Denmark or
Norway. It has come from somewhere, and I do not belive, that it all
came from Scandinavia. Partialy, yes, but not all.

Do you believe he was so easy defeated? If he had any objections to Germanic ancestry of this subclade he would simply said it. It was his paper. He can. But nope.

He wasn't TurnoGerman. He was nearly TurboSlav. In his naive faith in ancestral Slavdom oin Poland.

[Peterski]

I1-M253 frequencies in some populations:

Kashubians -------- 13,06% (35/268)
Greater Poles ----- 10,45% (21/201)
Lusatian Sorbs ---- 9,76% (12/123)
Kociewie ----------- 8,23% (13/158)
Kurpie ------------- 6,96% (11/158)
Upper Silesians --- 6,25% (3/48)
Lesser Poles ------- 5,66% (12/212)
Wrocław ----------- 4,04% (4/99)

I also added I1-M253 in one more population:

Mazovian nobility - 5,48% (8/146)

^^^
Based on FTDNA "Mazovian Nobility Project".

[Peterski]

More Wielbark descendants among peasants (Kashubians, Greater Poles) than nobility (Mazovia has the highest percent of nobility-descendants of all Polish regions). Something that Figlerowicz already said in one of his interviews. Population structure by region in the 16th century (1500s):

Mazovia:

Peasantry - 62,4 percent
Townsmen - 14,1 percent
Priesthood - 0,1 percent
Nobility - 23,4 percent (yes - almost 1/4 of Mazovians were nobles)

Greater Poland:

Peasantry - 68,9 percent
Townsmen - 25,2 percent
Priesthood - 0,3 percent
Nobility - 5,6 percent

Royal Prussia:

Peasantry - 59,3 percent
Townsmen - 36,5 percent
Priesthood - 1,2 percent
Nobility - 3,0 percent

Let me remind you what lgmayka wrote:

Just as remarkable as a rural southeastern Pole whose first three DNA tests on his relatives yield I2a, G2, and R1b. (That's my family.) The obvious point here is that academic sampling at the universities of big cities does not necessarily reflect local, rural variation, which may vary widely from village to village--in our day, and even more so in ancient and medieval times.

I really do understand the powerful desire to draw sweeping conclusions from a handful of ancient samples taken from a single archaeological dig--but we need to be realistic as to the limitations of that approach.

These are Wielbark-descended peasants.