Iron Age and Early Medieval Polish DNA coming soon

[Jana]

More Wielbark descendants among peasants (Kashubians, Greater Poles) than nobility (Mazovia has the highest percent of nobility-descendants of all Polish regions). Something that Figlerowicz already said in one of his interviews. Population structure by region in the 16th century (1500s):

How are Kashubians peasants ? My grand-grand aunt was married to Kashubian nobleman but they were not Polish but German/Prussian nobles (it seems Kashubians have been Germanized).
I can post scan of his family coat of arms if you don't believe me. And hg I seems high among Kashubians.

Did they count only Polish nobility in your 16 century data ?

[Peterski]

How are Kashubians peasants ?

There are some nobles, but the vast majority of Kashubians are peasants. I have a Kashubian noble line in my family tree, but it is was an impoverished family that lost its noble status.

Impoverished nobles were usually becoming peasants again. My Kashubian noble line were also peasants before 1300 AD. They became nobles through nobilitation in the 14th century.

So originally they were peasants, then became nobles, then lost their noble status.

[Peterski]

Kashubian nobility is mostly R1a according to what Artek told me (families such as von Klopotek, Gostomski, Miszewski, Trawicki, Cisowski, von Wedel, von Sydow belong to R1a - mostly R1a-L365).

Here you have families of Kashubian nobility (my Kashubian line are Gliszczyński):

http://www.szlachta.org.pl/opracowan...szubskiej.html

[Jana]

There are some nobles, but the vast majority of Kashubians are peasants. I have a Kashubian noble line in my family tree, but it is was an impoverished family that lost its noble status.
Impoverished nobles were usually becoming peasants again. My Kashubian noble line were also peasants before 1300 AD. They became nobles through nobilitation in the 14th century.
So originally they were peasants, then became nobles, then lost their noble status.

Very interesting. Are Kashubians more Slavic or Baltic genetically ? I know they aren't Germanic despite cultural assimilation.

[Peterski]

Very interesting. Are Kashubians more Slavic or Baltic genetically ?

Way more Slavic because they almost don't have any N1c.

[Peterski]

Nobility (szlachta) was multiplying faster than peasants (page 21, Table 1.):

http://homoeconomicus.uwb.edu.pl/pdf...ograficzne.pdf



An average nobleman had 2-3 sons surviving to adulthood.

A typical peasant had only 1-2 sons surviving to adulthood.

[Peterski]

From Czekanowski, "Wstęp do historii Słowian", 1957:



Wasn't that also Czekanowski who wrote that Polish nobility was darker-haired and darker-eyed than Polish peasants? I know that someone wrote that, I don't remember who. But it was the opposite pattern to that observed in places like France or Iberia, where the nobility was lighter than peasants.

[Rethel]

Do you believe he was so easy defeated? If he had any objections to Germanic ancestry of this subclade he would simply said it. It was his paper. He can. But nope.

He wasn't TurnoGerman. He was nearly TurboSlav. In his naive faith in ancestral Slavdom oin Poland.

Did he negate earlier or such true belivers as he any germanic
influence whatsoever? No single Goth, Vandal, Lug' or a Viking?
None? Not a single one?

[Rethel]

Mazovian nobility - 5,48% (8/146)

You see how liberal we are?
We even admitted some I1 as honourable!

p.s.
Mazowian but with some mazovianized
lands including Podlachia for example.

Based on FTDNA "Mazovian Nobility Project".

When wielkopolish will be?
Did all wielkopolish szlachta extinct?
In common project there are only two or three specimens
In ZSzP is almost none from there. They cannot even formate a branch.

[Rethel]

Nobility - 23,4 percent (yes - almost 1/4 of Mazovians were nobles)

Greater Poland:
Nobility - 5,6 percent

Maybe even less, becasue Poznań Department
of Warsaw Duchy has only 1,2%, Bydgoszcz's
Department 2,3% and Kalisz's 2,4%.

Hard to say which estimation is correct, but
I guess that percentages from 19th century
are more accurate. Some of course could
emigrate or extinct, but the difference is
quite big. The same in other parts.

It is hard to find information, which etimate was based on census.
This 19th century I took from GUS publication, so I hope it is based
on some real censuses. I don't think that commies would lie so much
But who knows...

These are Wielbark-descended peasants.

It is also not known, what role they played among Goths.
They also had slaves, serfs, and pre-their people.