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Thread: Iron Age and Early Medieval Polish DNA coming soon

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    impoverished family that lost its noble status.
    No, totaly untrue.
    To lost noble status sombody would have to absorb poddaństwo.

    They became nobles through nobilitation in the 14th century.
    By whom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feiichy View Post
    How are Kashubians peasants ?
    Becasue no Noble is identify as local.

    Szlachta is a subgroup itself, simiral to Kashubian, Goralian aso.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Nobility (szlachta) was multiplying faster than peasants (page 21, Table 1.):
    Mine did from two (maybe three)
    guys in 1450 to around 50-60 men
    in 1550. Plus women of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Rethel of Retheley View Post
    By whom?
    Grand Master of the Teutonic Order.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Wasn't that also Czekanowski who wrote that Polish nobility was darker-haired and darker-eyed than Polish peasants? I know that someone wrote that, I don't remember who. But it was the opposite pattern to that observed in places like France or Iberia, where the nobility was lighter than peasants.
    It depends on time and region. Szlachta was often
    marrying peasant women, and no, they did not count
    how many au who has. Certainly don't

    Local author from Sabnie wrote, that peasants were
    dark and swarthy in that area, and szlachta was fair
    haired. He published around 1920.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    From Czekanowski, "Wstęp do historii Słowian", 1957:

    But the Piasts were R1b, not R1a, so perhaps they were descended from those Wielbark peasants. The legendary Piast was a farmer (oracz) or a wheelwright (kołodziej), a simple peasant:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piast_the_Wheelwright

    http://weneda.net/piast-oracz/

    The legendary Popielids were perhaps R1a (assuming that Popielid chiefs existed).

    The Piasts were initially low status and likely took over power from the Popielids:

    Two theories explain the etymology of the word Piast. The first gives the root as piasta ("hub" in Polish), a reference to his profession. The second relates Piast to piastun ("custodian" or "keeper"). This could hint at Piast's initial position as a majordomo, or a "steward of the house", in the court of another ruler, and the subsequent takeover of power by Piast. This would parallel the development of the early medieval Frankish dynasties, when the Mayors of the Palace of the Merovingian kings gradually usurped political control.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    The legendary Popielids were perhaps R1a (assuming that Popielid chiefs existed).
    1. Popiel had 20 stryjs from which many families descendend.
    2. Piast could be Popielid himself, because, he was called son
    of Chościsko or Książysko, and Popiel bear the same nickname.
    3. Watch this Urbańczyk's lecture about the early Christianity
    in yet not Poland. Based on this, the moravian theory is quite
    convicable (but I still doubt it). He is also showing eveidence,
    that the first christian lived on Mazowia Mojmirowices btw
    could be descendants of Samo, who could be certainly R1b.

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    Isn't the nickname Chościsko linked with Goths?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Isn't the nickname Chościsko linked with Goths?
    Nope. How?
    But Kociewie is.
    Originally Gociewie.

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    Nobility was - compared to peasants - darker-pigmented, more brachycephalic, more Dinarid:



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    This is about stereotypes.

    To be representable, they would have
    to check everywhere, not only in Płońsk.

    And szlachta was not hermetic racially.
    Marrying a commoner was very often,
    in medieval times a normal practice,
    later stopped, and again from XIXth
    century became a norm, buy it did
    happen often also in interperiod.

    Among okoliczna's szlachta some types
    could dominate localy, but if was not
    because of some universal type, but
    becasue of local inbreeding.

    p.s. but my ancestors actually would fit with hair

    p.s. Look how looks the Chief Prezes of polish szlachta
    You will be surrprized

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