The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe

[Rethel]

Maybe i'm just being a G snob? I would really like to see more concrete data on my G1 tho, until i do i remain convinced that i was engineered by ancient aliens.

Take example from me. I am happy for every R1b which is founded, self being R1a

[ADonkeyBrain]

yes, hellenthal's study from 2014 has Greeks as 63% Cypriot+ 37%Slavic

Yes, of course the Balkans never looked like either of those so this modelling sounds more dramatic than the reality likely is. I'm wondering how Bronze Age Crete and Cyprus will turn out. Bet they will already be moved towards their modern position overall and will show strong connections to Anatolia but who knows.

Either way this new study sort of tends to point to what we generally know, that the Balkans have had connections mostly to Anatolia and Northeast Europe that start-and-stop-and-repeat - since forever.

[cosmoo]

Where I2a1b most likely expanded from:

There is nothing which ties I2a1b to that area, as by modern distribution (of older clades, Isles and Disles) AND by ancient DNA (most of northwestern Mesolithic hunter-gatherers plus Neolithic England and Scotland were I2a1b) it is clear I2a1b arose in northwestern Europe, and is native to that area.
But I suppose you were talking about I2a1b "Dinaric"? Dinaric is merely a branch of Disles, which has highest concentration on British Isles. Also, Motala12 sample from Mesolithic Sweden is I2a1b "Dinaric". There is nothing which would make it eastern European. We can only speculate when its bearers adopted Slavic language, but most probably it happened quite recently.

[jingorex]

Take example from me. I am happy for every R1b which is founded, self being R1a

perhaps you're right.

[Coolguy1]

My mother's side is I2a2a2 (I-M223), belonging to the branch that spans the Mediterranean. TMRCA with French and German members is estimated at over 7,000 years ago. Perhaps a descendant of one of these I2a2 Balkan samples.

[Lek]

You forget that my original post you first responded to was simply telling an Albanian who claimed "Balkanites have 100% autosomal continuity from the Bronze Age" he was wrong.

"Farmer shifted Tuscans" 3 of them are, yes, the other 5 red squares are closer to N. Italians than Tuscans, but "farmer shifted Tuscans" is just nitpicking here and you're basically agreeing with my point. The copper age ones are all N. Italian.

There are literally no samples from southern Bulgaria, not sure why you said that. They're all on the Romanian border, and there's not much difference between Bulgarian samples and far northern Croatian ones.

I didn't claim modern Balkanites are BA Balkanites+Turks, those are Faklon's words. I didn't even suggest a source. All I said was they were N. Italian, or not modern Balkanites. You basically agreed you can't get modern Bulgarians from BA Bulgarians+modern Balto-Slavs, so we're on the same page. Lots of potential other populations. Yamnaya(although seems unlikely as the initial Yamnaya push had already happened and Yamnaya didn't exist in the late bronze age anymore), the Iron Age Scythian from Hungary who was pretty south-eastern compared to Europeans, copper age Anatolians, etc. Doesn't have to be Turks, doesn't make them anyless southern shifted though.

Yeah youre right.

But there actually is a continuity as there are Albanians who do plot north as north italy just east without any slavic or germanic admix.

There seems to of been a certain genetic gap between north and south Balkans which is why some of these plot more south with tuscans and others more north italy. Those Southern plotting Albanians , including some Ghegs here, really do seem to have Southern ancestry and closer plotting to Tuscans. They are not gonna plot with that Dalmatian found even if he was already mixed. He'd be closer to some really north plotting Albanian or north Italian.

Bulgarian average is also more north than tuscan. Thracian samples plotted east of tuscan but northern ilyrian would be more northern plotting, thisis wherei plot



Those cimrians, veneto etc are just north italian areas on average.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

You mean J2b2-M241 and it's Euro branches can be called as a Illyrian, unlike J2b1-M205 which is more connected to Roman expansion.
E-V13 is highly ''indoeuropeanised'' before it's expansion with Romans, Greeks, Thracians or even Germans.

This seems very plausible theory, I can attest this with my results I get which tells me that my family lineage at past was greatly affected genetically by indo-european groups.

[Geni]

All these Gheg haplogroups... Feels good.

This is my group....hmm..interesting

[Lek]

Btw big boss, those ydna's are also found in greeks and tosks and for sure not anymore gheg but one thing for sure most of you south plotting and high greek scoring did not come from those parts of the balkans , they plot nowhere even close to you.

[Trojet]

You mean J2b2-M241 and it's Euro branches can be called as a Illyrian, unlike J2b1-M205 which is more connected to Roman expansion.
E-V13 is highly ''indoeuropeanised'' before it's expansion with Romans, Greeks, Thracians or even Germans.

There is only one J2b2-M241 Euro branch, which is J2b2a-L283 and its subclades. There is an old early Neolithic split of M241 into L283 "Europe" and Z2432 "South Asia". So I think it's time for people to stop using M241 SNP, and use J2b2-L283 (J-L283) when we're talking about the Euro J2b2, as I have been doing for years now. (It's like still using the upstream E-M78 when we're talking about E-V13).