Poland-Germany border, most interesting thing ever

[Peterski]

There is entire very funny thread on Anthrogenica dedicated to people ranting that their German-speaking ancestors were not genetically German (which is because of huge cultural Germanization in the past):

23andme's "German Problem":

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...n-Problem-quot

These butthurted Pan-Germanic nationalists and other idiots just don't understand this.

"My ancestor was Slavic and started speaking German - why didn't his DNA change?!"

[Peterski]

Before doing a DNA test, I foolishly believed that I would get 100% Slavic autosomal DNA and R1a. Meanwhile I'm getting only 50% - 75% Slavic and R1b-DF27 (of Celtic origin).

Where is it from? My surname is typically Slavic Polish with "-ski" ending.

Not everyone is what they think they are.

[Peterski]

Polish-Germans

According to Fichte's description below Lower Silesian "Germans" are totally Polish:

They just happen to speak German (but an incomprehensible dialect of German):

[Peterski]

German blood

Already in the Middle Ages some Poles were seriously concerned about the spread of German language.

They also criticized the heavily corrupted Church, an institution implanted to the Pagan Slavic world largely from the German world.

Jan Ostroróg (1436-1501) in his "Monumentum pro Reipublicae Ordinatione Congestum" ("Treatise on Improving the Republic"), published in 1475, wrote:



In English:

"XXII. About Sermons in the German Language:

Oh what an ungracious and hideous thing for the Poles, that in many places in our churches sermons are given in German language, and this takes place in a lofty and magnificent setting, where only one or two old women listen to them, while at the same time the crowds of Poles are squeezed somewhere in the corner with their preacher. And because nature itself implanted eternal discord and hatred between these two languages (as well as in some other aspects), I exhort you not to say the mass in that language. Let the one who wants to live in Poland learn to speak Polish! Unless we are such simpletons that we forget that the Germans treat our language in a similar fashion in their country. And if, after all, such sermons are needed for the foreign immigrants, let them take place somewhere in secluded spots, without damage to the dignity of the Poles."



In English:

"XX. About Enrolling Monks to the Monasteries.

Lords ruling the Republic! How feeble-minded are you, that until this day you have tolerated the fact, that from monasteries - dowered with land and income by our ancestors, built on Polish soil and with its crops fed by the Poles - they are excluding our kinsmen and not allowing them to join the convents; and this only because they are bound by an act of law, which tells them to enroll only Germans to the convent. This act of law is ridiculous and contrary to church laws. Because who dares to impose such a yoke upon the sovereign Kingdom of Poland - the King of which does not recognize the lordship of anyone above him - under the false guise of an act of law? You, brave men - if you want to be considered brave - must stop allowing the Germans - and especially these boorish and effeminate monks - to make fun of the Polish nation, and to deceive it with their bogus piety."



In English:

"XVIII. About the Pride of Priests:

Many of you, or maybe all of you, even if less fit to pastoral work, are applying for the priestly dignity, because idleness tends to be pleasant and attractive, while inaction tends to be nice and engaging. Perhaps, if I am not mistaken, the thing which encourages them to do this, is what Saint Paul said: Who desires a bishopric, desires something good. However, they don't know, that desiring itself is evil. One who steals gold, steals something good, but stealing itself is evil. And every priest, if we believe church laws, is a bishop, generally speaking. Sirs! Have you read what I wrote above, as well as what Hieronymus wrote, many of you would have chosen another way of life, and really valued the afterlife more than the earthly life. Myself being a Pole, and seeing what is happening in Poland now, I could not be silent about this."

All in all Ostrorog's concerns about the spread of German language among Poles were justified - considering that several centuries later guys like Otto von Bismarck or Adolf Hitler were convinced that all areas with German-speaking inhabitants should be annexed by Germany.

[Peterski]

there is more German blood in the U.S. than in all of modern Germany.

Most of German-Americans are only 1/4, 1/18 or 1/16 German. This kind of range.

They are mixed as fuck, and surprised when they get "no German on a DNA test".

===============

Just look how the number of self-identified Germans suddenly increased in the USA from 1980 to 1990 (obviously they did not acquire German DNA - they just started to identify as "Germans"):

In 1980 (the 1st census with ancestry question) more people reported English than German -
graph showing Euro ancestries with ~10 million or more declarations (ACS = American Community Survey - AFAIK, actual census data on ancestry has not yet been published for 2010 census):

In 2000 census the number of people who didn't report ancestry at all was 53,673,566 - they are just "Americans with no ancestry" (I couldn't find such data for 2010 census):



Detailed numbers (note that in each census millions of people reported more than just one ancestry, due to which the total number of ancestry declarations was always higher than the number of people who reported their ancestry; also for example while the number of German ancestry declarations was always within the range of 43-58 million, the number of people who reported "German Alone" was +/- 17 million, and the number of people who reported German as "First Ancestry" was +/- 30 million, while the remaining ones reported it as "Second Ancestry" or as one of "Multiple" ancestries, depending on census and how reports containing more than two ancestries were counted in a particular census*):

People declaring ancestry:	1980 (census)	1990 (census)	2000 (census)	2010 (ACSurvey)
German =	49,224,146	57,947,374	42,839,711	47,901,779
Irish =	40,165,702	38,735,539	30,524,799	34,669,616
English =	49,598,035	32,651,788	24,509,692	25,926,451
American =	13,298,761	12,395,999	20,188,305	19,975,875
Italian =	12,183,692	14,664,550	15,635,567	17,235,941
Polish =	9,366,106	8,228,037	8,977,173	9,569,207
French =	13,672,246	12,488,062	10,167,636	10,849,466
People with no ancestry =	23,182,019	23,921,371	53,673,566

*Here is what they write on www.census.gov website about people who declare more than 2 ancestries:

"(...) The ancestry question was added to the census form in 1980, so the earliest information available from this question is from 1980. Currently [since when exactly, though?], when someone reports more than two groups for their ancestry in the American Community Survey, only the first two ancestries are tabulated. Some people identify their ancestry as American. This could be because their ancestors have been in United States for so long or they have such mixed backgrounds that they do not identify with any particular group. (...) There are many reasons people may report their ancestors as American, and the growth in this response has been substantial. (...)"

^^^ So people reporting German, British, French, Spanish, Polish, Russian and Irish are counted as just German-British - and all other ancestries get ignored. Even if they are only 1/16 German and 1/16 British (but for some reason they decide to list German and British as their first two ancestries).

[Peterski]

And a lot of "German-Americans" are in fact Jews from Germany, such as Albert Einstein.

Many people with Slavic ancestry also report themselves as "German-Americans".

[Dandelion]

Poles basically were like Anglo consumerists here? Too much glorifying the German language to their own detriment? I doubt that. Anglophilia here has made 0 Anglophones thus far. I personally would assume German colonisation also is part of it. It's not just a cultural spread, but also a genetic one. Why else would an elite try to switch language like that?
Up until the mid 20th century there also was an elite in the Dutch-speaking North of Belgium who preferred to speak French and even raise their children in French while being originally Dutch-speakers, but this was only due to centuries of foreign Habsburg rule and two generations of French rule and a Francophone bourgeoisie that ruled the early Belgian state making all education for parvenus Francophone. It did spread under impulse of a driving French-speaking elite though and was somewhat imposed by the upper echelons of society here.

[War Chef]

And a lot of "German-Americans" are in fact Jews from Germany, such as Albert Einstein.

Many people with Slavic ancestry also report themselves as "German-Americans".

Litvin the know-it-all is finally, unmistakably wrong.

I have seen dozens of American PCA plots and they almost all (with the exception of some bizzare minority cases) plot here:



^ Anglo+German combo would explain it well.

American = English + Central Euro hybrid. Period.

Also, maybe I was exaggerating about there being more Germans in U.S. than in Germany itself, but still there are a fuck ton of them:

46,047,113

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans

[Peterski]

Why else would an elite try to switch language like that.

In Poland the elite were nobles - and nobles were never obsessed with German culture. Quite the opposite, Polish nobles were always rather Anti-German and culturally more Eastern than Western.

But the nobility did not care about commoners, who were adopting German language.

As for clergy - in some regions clergy was very Pro-German, in other regions Anti-German.

Where clergy was Pro-German (or even actually German), they were imposing sermons in German language. And where sermons were in German, peasants were becoming Germanized.

[Dandelion]

In Poland the elite were nobles - and nobles were never obsessed with German culture. Quite the opposite, Polish nobles were always quite Anti-German and culturally more Eastern than Western.

But the nobility did not care about commoners, who were adopting German language.

Rethelians on steroids. At least Rethel likes his Polish language, despite his Germanophilia.