Salvation and repentance is possible after death

[monfret]

the traditional patristic apokatastasis exlcuded demons from reconciliation,only Origen believed in their restoration.we don't know,but we can positvely know the Lord doesn't Cast away forever and that he will punish the wicked to correct them.

even if you ignore universalist verses...there are NO eternal doom verses in the (Correctly translated)bible,its simply manmade doctrine .

[Loki]

Hosea 12:4 Yea, he(Jacob) had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us

Jacob yath7anon lo ''prayed to him''
Praise the LORD, you his angels, you mighty ones who do his bidding, who obey his word. Psalm 103:20

Psalm 148:2 Praise Him, all His angels; Praise Him, all His hosts!

this is praying to angels,he is praying to all his angels and asking them to do a action.

Seriously... if you regard that as "praying to angels"... then you are incredibly deluded. Or you don't understand English very well. That's not praying to angels at all.

[wvwvw]

Eventually the whole world will repent and be saved. God's love is greater than we imagine or than we can imagine - this is the testimony of the prophets, sages, saints, mystics, and ordinary people throughout the ages who have shared with us their incomparable sense of Oneness with God and God's unconditional love for us all.

NDErs routinely report an immense amount of unconditional love radiating from the Being of Light.

”All flesh shall see the salvation of God." (Luke 3:6)

[Loki]

exlain lamentations 3 :31 ?

prove to me from the bible hell is eternal and you can't get out of hell when dead?you keep repeating the same premise without showing me where this is the case biblically.

Raven has already done it in her post, and you just disregarded it. You just see what you want to see...

[monfret]

Eventually the whole world will repent and be saved. God's love is greater than we imagine or than we can imagine - this is the testimony of the prophets, sages, saints, mystics, and ordinary people throughout the ages who have shared with us their incomparable sense of Oneness with God and God's unconditional love for us all.

NDErs routinely report an immense amount of unconditional love radiating from the Being of Light.

”All flesh shall see the salvation of God." (Luke 3:6)

Beautiful verse I also like this one - God has consigned all* men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all*.Romans 11:32

John 17:2
2 As You have given Him authority over all flesh, He will give eternal life to all whom You have given Him.

“All that the Father giveth me, shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in nowise cast out.” John 6:37

God is love and love worketh no ill. “God is love.” (1 John 4:8). “Love worketh no ill.” (Romans 13:10)Nor does it keep a record of Wrongs!

As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.” (Ezekiel. 33:11)

The pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.” (Isaiah 53:10)
ST.Theophilus of Antioch :

”God showed great kindness to man in this, that He did not suffer him to remain in sin for ever; but, as it were, by a kind of banishment, cast him out of Paradise, in order that, having by punishment expiated, within an appointed time, the sin, and having been disciplined, he should afterwards be restored. Wherefore also, when man had been formed in this world, it is mystically written in Genesis, as if he had been twice placed in Paradise; so that the one was fulfilled when he was placed there, and the second will be fulfilled after the resurrection and judgment. For just as a vessel, when on being fashioned it has some flaw, is remoulded or remade, that it may become new and entire; so also it happens to man by death. For somehow or other [or: by force] he is broken up, that he may rise in the resurrection whole; I mean spotless, and righteous, and immortal.”

st.Irenaeus

Wherefore also he drove him out of paradise and removed him far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, as some dare assert, but because He pitied him and desired that he should not be immortal and the evil interminable and irremediable.” Irenaeus,

Gregory of Nyssa :Nevertheless one who regards only the dissolution of the body is greatly disturbed, and makes it a hardship that this life of ours should be dissolved by death; it is, he says, the extremity of evil that our being should be quenched by this condition of mortality. Let him, then, observe through this gloomy prospect the excess of the Divine benevolence.

[monfret]

After death it will have already been too late. We have several Bible passages that clearly state that everyone who dies will face judgment once they depart from the physical world e.g. Heb.9:27: “Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment”. Death is final, and there are only two destinies, heaven and hell, reward or condemnation, based on premortem conditions (Matt.7:21–23;13:36–43; John5:28–29). Revelation 20:11–15 describes the Great White Throne judgment:

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and qbooks were opened. Then another book was opened, which is rthe book of life. And sthe dead were judged by what was written in the books, taccording to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is wthe second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

This indicates that our eternal destiny is based on our earthly life. Or take the parable of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke16:19–31 as another example. "The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side." (v. 22–23).

Luke 16:26 notes, "And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us."

Catholics have the purgatory, a transitional place where souls can dwell to pay for their sins and later reach heaven, however this has no biblical basis, it is rather a Catholic tradition, and one that has been unfortunately abused for materialistic and corrupt purposes, such as the selling of indulgences to the family members of those "trapped" in purgatory.

Finally, salvation is not only linked to our eternal faith but it is also a life-altering decision, so not something to put off for later in life or for the deathbed. Christians should seek to obtain it sooner than later. (2 Corinthians 6:2 "For he says, “In a favorable time I listened to you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation). We only have one lifetime, which is short as it is, but as long as we are alive, we have unlimited occasions to be receive justification, we only have to accept Jesus's sacrifice on the cross (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31). God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4). Once we die though, that's it. (Physical) death seals our eternal destiny.

quoting this because Loki thinks this rules out apokatastasis when it doesn't.noone denies there exists a place of anguish after death and that there is a judgement (albeit not final)for the wicked.but when you read scripture in context you see that there will be a end to hell and that hell is only for a duration or age.you see that God will be all in all and draw everyone unto him.none of this refutes my position,it only refutes a strawman of immediate universalism.

[wvwvw]

Near-death experiencers affirm hell is a place for purification and instruction, not eternal damnation. The NDE Jesus teaches hell is neither eternal nor about retribution. It is all about rehabilitation. Jesus' parable of the Prodigal Son supports this. The NDE hell realms are temporary spiritual conditions which function more like the Catholic concept of purgatory. NDEs reveal there is no condemnation after death except self-condemnation. You see people in hell who still refuse to forgive.

NDE Jesus, having the unconditional love of God, condemns no one. It is a person's life review which causes many people to flee the light and escape into the darkness. This is supported by the Biblical Jesus:

"This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God." (John 3:19-21)

The NDE God would never allow anyone to suffer eternally in hell. For one thing, the NDE Jesus rescues NDErs suffering in hell all the time. The NDE Jesus wants everyone to know the gates of heaven and hell are wide open and those in hell are free to leave and choose heaven if they desire. But people in hell must first want to escape from there. The gates of a jail cell may be wide open; but the prisoner must want to be free and leave.

However, on another level, a case can be made for the existence of eternal damnation. Time does not exist in the afterlife. NDE experiencers of hell have reported how one minute in hell feels like an eternity. The Bible supports this notion: one day to God is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day (2 Peter 3:8). Also, it is possible for hell to be an "eternal hell" - an eternal location in the afterlife. But this doesn't necessarily mean it is an eternal experience for those who go there.

Biblical Evidence

God wills everyone to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and no one can thwart God's will (Job 42:2). God doesn't want anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9) and all people will see God's salvation (Luke 3:5-6). God is savior of all people (1 Timothy 4:9-10) and God saved the world through Jesus (John 3:17). Jesus came to save the world (John 12:47). Jesus tasted death for everyone (Hebrews 2:9). He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). He took away the sins of the world (John 1:29). He justifies and gives life to all people (Romans 5:18-21). All will be made alive (1 Corinthian 15:22). He is the savior of the world (John 4:42, 1 John 4:14).

At the cross, Jesus redeemed and reconciled all sinners (Romans 5:8-10) and reconciled all things to himself (Colossians 1:19-21). God has reconciled the world to himself (2 Corinthians 5:18-19). Christ draws all people to himself (John 12:32).

God doesn't cast off anyone forever (Lamentations 3:31-33). God has mercy on all the disobedient (Romans 11:32). God helps all who fall (Psalm 145:14). God dwells with the rebellious (Psalm 68:18). Jesus finds and saves all of the lost (Luke 15:4). Jesus finds those who go astray (Matthew 18:10-14). God does not stay angry forever but delights in showing mercy (Micah 7:18). God's anger lasts only a moment (Psalm 30:5).

God is love (I John 4:7-8). God loves everyone (Psalm 145:9). Love keeps no record of wrongs and always protects (1 Corinthian 13:4-7). God is merciful to all (Luke 6:35-36). Love does no harm (Romans 13:10). Nothing can separate people from the love of God (Romans 8:38-39).

Jesus said to always forgive (Matthew 18:21-22). Bless your persecutors and not curse them (Romans 12:14). Don't do evil to those who are evil (Roman 12:17). Overcome evil with good (Romans 12:21).

All of God's creation will praise and honor God and Christ (Revelation 5:13). Christ is Lord of the dead and the living (Romans 14:9). God will bring unity to all things under Christ (Ephesian 1:9-10).

Jesus frees people in hell (Ephesian 4:8-10). Death and hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14).

”We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death." - (1 John 3:14)

[Loki]

Of course, I would also like that no-one be lost, but that all would come to the knowledge of God and eternal life. But there are some who say "oh, we can wait until after death to make right with God... we don't have to do it yet"... I cannot tell such people that they will be safe and sound, all will be well. Because they make a conscious decision to reject God in this life. It will not be good for them.

[monfret]

Debunking an everlasting hell and affirming universal restoration

God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them ''all''.Romans 11:32

or no one is cast off by the Lord forever.Lamentations 3:31

The Lord knows how to deliver the devout out of trial, but to reserve the unrighteous for a day of judgment, to be corrected. (2 Peter 2:9)

1 Timothy 2:4 -- “ will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”

Jeremiah 32:27 -- “Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh, is there any thing too hard for Me?

Acts 3:20 “And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Isaiah 57:16
16 For I will not contend forever,
nor will I always be angry;
for the spirit would grow faint before Me,
and the souls whom I have made.

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death. O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave (or Hell, Sheol), I will be thy destruction.” (Hosea 13:14)


Micah 7:18
18 Who is a God like You,
bearing iniquity and passing over transgression
for the remnant of His inheritance?
He does not remain angry forever,
because He delights in benevolence.






Colossians 1:19,20 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

John 17:2
2 As You have given Him authority over all flesh, He will give eternal life to all whom You have given Him.

“All that the Father giveth me, shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in nowise cast out.” John 6:37

God is love and love worketh no ill. “God is love.” (1 John 4:8). “Love worketh no ill.” (Romans 13:10)Nor does it keep a record of Wrongs!

As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.” (Ezekiel. 33:11)

So shall by word be that goeth forth out of my mouth; it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11).

“I will do all my pleasure.” (Isaiah 46:10)

The pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.” (Isaiah 53:10)

who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.1 Timothy 2:5


The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, surely as I have purposed, so shall it stand.” (Isaiah 14:24) “For the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? And his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?” (Isaiah 14:27) “I have purposed it, I will also do it.” (Isaiah 46:11)

all the ends of the world shall remember, and turn unto the Lord; and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before him.” (Psalms 22:27)

[monfret]

Near-death experiencers affirm hell is a place for purification and instruction, not eternal damnation. The NDE Jesus teaches hell is neither eternal nor about retribution. It is all about rehabilitation. Jesus' parable of the Prodigal Son supports this. The NDE hell realms are temporary spiritual conditions which function more like the Catholic concept of purgatory. NDEs reveal there is no condemnation after death except self-condemnation. You see people in hell who still refuse to forgive.

NDE Jesus, having the unconditional love of God, condemns no one. It is a person's life review which causes many people to flee the light and escape into the darkness. This is supported by the Biblical Jesus:

"This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God." (John 3:19-21)

The NDE God would never allow anyone to suffer eternally in hell. For one thing, the NDE Jesus rescues NDErs suffering in hell all the time. The NDE Jesus wants everyone to know the gates of heaven and hell are wide open and those in hell are free to leave and choose heaven if they desire. But people in hell must first want to escape from there. The gates of a jail cell may be wide open; but the prisoner must want to be free and leave.

However, on another level, a case can be made for the existence of eternal damnation. Time does not exist in the afterlife. NDE experiencers of hell have reported how one minute in hell feels like an eternity. The Bible supports this notion: one day to God is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day (2 Peter 3:8). Also, it is possible for hell to be an "eternal hell" - an eternal location in the afterlife. But this doesn't necessarily mean it is an eternal experience for those who go there.

Biblical Evidence

God wills everyone to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and no one can thwart God's will (Job 42:2). God doesn't want anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9) and all people will see God's salvation (Luke 3:5-6). God is savior of all people (1 Timothy 4:9-10) and God saved the world through Jesus (John 3:17). Jesus came to save the world (John 12:47). Jesus tasted death for everyone (Hebrews 2:9). He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). He took away the sins of the world (John 1:29). He justifies and gives life to all people (Romans 5:18-21). All will be made alive (1 Corinthian 15:22). He is the savior of the world (John 4:42, 1 John 4:14).

At the cross, Jesus redeemed and reconciled all sinners (Romans 5:8-10) and reconciled all things to himself (Colossians 1:19-21). God has reconciled the world to himself (2 Corinthians 5:18-19). Christ draws all people to himself (John 12:32).

God doesn't cast off anyone forever (Lamentations 3:31-33). God has mercy on all the disobedient (Romans 11:32). God helps all who fall (Psalm 145:14). God dwells with the rebellious (Psalm 68:18). Jesus finds and saves all of the lost (Luke 15:4). Jesus finds those who go astray (Matthew 18:10-14). God does not stay angry forever but delights in showing mercy (Micah 7:18). God's anger lasts only a moment (Psalm 30:5).

God is love (I John 4:7-8). God loves everyone (Psalm 145:9). Love keeps no record of wrongs and always protects (1 Corinthian 13:4-7). God is merciful to all (Luke 6:35-36). Love does no harm (Romans 13:10). Nothing can separate people from the love of God (Romans 8:38-39).

Jesus said to always forgive (Matthew 18:21-22). Bless your persecutors and not curse them (Romans 12:14). Don't do evil to those who are evil (Roman 12:17). Overcome evil with good (Romans 12:21).

All of God's creation will praise and honor God and Christ (Revelation 5:13). Christ is Lord of the dead and the living (Romans 14:9). God will bring unity to all things under Christ (Ephesian 1:9-10).

Jesus frees people in hell (Ephesian 4:8-10). Death and hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14).

”We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death." - (1 John 3:14)

Peace and Blessings of Christ upon you ,ex-Calvinist George De Benneville and St.Julianna of Norwich also affirmed through their NDEs with Jesus that hell is temporary