Arpad dynasty DNA (kings of Hungary & Croatia)

[Dibran]

So you think that White Croats and Serbs "slavicized" Rethelites? Then from where they picked up this language, since I2-Din didn't speak IE haha.

I2 was so far long in Europe that I2 definitely participated in Indo European movements. Whether they originally descended from Mesolithic groups or not.

[Jana]

Very interesting. Is this the case overall? or do other areas have more R1a diversity? Isn't the rule of thumb that regions of the most diversity are usually starting points? Maybe it spread with Sarmatians or Dacians around the Morava that were part of the ethnogenesis of the Slavs?

Without any aDNA though, I suppose its just a guessing came.

Yes, might be just speculation. It doesn't make too much sense to me, I would expect more diversity in north-east of Europe and central Asia /Siberia. But south-east of Romania is already steppe zone, so who know...
Eupedia isn't academic site anyway.

I do notice too alot of R1a in South Slavs is mostly Z280. M458 seems more East Balkan, but with regards to the West Balkans its higher in Croats no?

Actually we are pred. Z280 (so called Carpathian-Dalmatian subclade) , there was one erraneous study with small smaple size that showed more M458, but several others refuted it.

I2 was so far long in Europe that I2 definitely participated in Indo European movements. Whether they originally descended from Mesolithic groups or not.

[blogen]

What % of Hungarians have R1a? Because I've seen many conflicting figures.

Here are 488 random sample. This is an inappropriate statistics of course, because the sampling was not systematic from an area and totally subjective in space and time. Hovewer, 488 is much more than nothing.

The results: 118 persons, 24.1% R1a
- 4 persons, 0,8% R1a Z93
- 55 persons, 11,2% R1a Z280

So, almost half of the Hungarian R1a is potentially steppe related.

Other interesting results:
- 18 persons, 3,6% R1b M269 (proto-Aryan steppe R1b)
- 13 persons, 2,6% G2a (Caucasian subgrups)
- 10 persons, 2% Q
- 8 persons, 1,6% N (the non Balto-Slavic subgrups)
- 1 persons, 0,2% C

So at least 22% of the Y-DNA lineages are potentially conqueror Magyar origin types.

[Dibran]

Yes, might be just speculation. It doesn't make too much sense to me, I would expect more diversity in north-east of Europe and central Asia /Siberia. But south-east of Romania is already steppe zone, so who know...
Eupedia isn't academic site anyway.


Actually we are pred. Z280 (so called Carpathian-Dalmatian subclade) , there was one erraneous study with small smaple size that showed more M458, but several others refuted it.

Good point. If the diversification is strongest in Romania for M458/Z280, then I would imagine some splintered Dacian clans, and or possibly Sarmatian groups like Roxolani could be responsible for the diversification around this area. As I understand, Dacians were around the Southern Baltics no? If so, Z280 is definitely possible, and maybe even M458.

People make it seem like Z280/M458 were walled up like the white walkers of game of thrones, and just started migrating in all directions in the middle ages. That literally makes no sense. If M458 for instance was already in Central Europe during Lusatians, then it definitely participated in both Slavic, and East Germanic tribes.

Even the trajectory of Bastarnae for instance, passed through Z280/M458 hotspots. So it escapes logic to assume some of it was not spreading with them. They were especially known to intermix with others.

Also What if Volga Bulgars spread M458? some branches of M458 typically seem more restricted to Bulgaria/Romania. Like YP263 under L1029 which is typically East Balkan(according to Michal).

I turned out to be L1029* basal and negative downstream. All my matches are 2000 plus years ago. I was suspected to possibly form my own cluster upstream YP263 but downstream L1029*. However, the clade is too unstable. I plan to test my father next to form and define the cluster between us. But it seems we are either basal L1029 or ancestral to YP263.

My close Y37 match won;t test further. He is Albanian from Gostivar, Macedonia. So my fathers test should define a new subclade under L1029*. My closest STR match is the Beijing sample from China lolol. Only one match though. and under 100 SNP matches.

On 23andme, most my M417 paternal matches are Greek, Romanian, Albanian, and Bulgarian, and a couple Croatians. There is no telling what subclade they belong. I imagine being M417 and a paternal autsomal match is a hint that they could be M458.

Oh, I know M458 is less than Z280, but isn't Croatia the highest in M458 after East Balkans?

Dacians were still active in early AD around Romania, so the diversification may play a role. Especially with the oldest M417 popping up around Ukraine. Perhaps diversification happened around Romania. The Morava as I have heard.

Are there any scientifically published periodicals attesting to this? The lack of diversity in NE is odd, true. Especially all the aDNA in the area came up Z280 mostly. There is still no aDNA for M458. Unless I am missing something. Google search turns up nothing.

[Rethel]

Means his dna is of no use to find out more about conquering Hungarians genetics.

[Rethel]

There is literally no aDNA for M458

Why are you repeating this post after post?
It has no sense, as many will not understand
what you mean, or take it for auDNA (if you
did mot mean that, who knows).

[Dibran]

Why are you repeating this post after post?
It has no sense, as many will not understand
what you mean, or take it for auDNA (if you
did mot mean that, who knows).

If you bother reading you would see why. People keep saying as if its already been proven, where M458 came from. No aDNA has been discovered. Which means until it is, all else is speculation. Understand?

[Rethel]

I2 was so far long in Europe that I2 definitely participated in Indo European movements. Whether they originally descended from Mesolithic groups or not.

Every hg, which was under way did it, so, there is no point in it.

[Rethel]

If you bother reading you would see why. People keep saying as if its already been proven, where M458 came from. No aDNA has been discovered. Which means until it is, all else is speculation. Understand?

You mean ancient DNA?

[Dibran]

You mean ancient DNA?

Yea. Ancient DNA. I can't find any papers for M458. So, I assume there are no ancient DNA samples yet. I heard alot of Z280 was recently discovered in the Baltics. But no M458 among them.